Performance Boats Forum banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anybody in So. Cal ever lemon law their vehicle? Who did you use? How did it go?
Have a 2005 Powerstroke that is nothing but a PITA!:)st
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
I have, once with a Chevy and now with a BMW both times my Dealer was the one that started the process with the Manufacture.
 

·
Ralphs club member
Joined
·
886 Posts
At least your not alone with that year powerstroke truck, its definetly a plausable case
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Done it twice

First time was painless and did it myself. All of the information you need should be in the owners manual (or documents) you received at the time of purchase. I got back all my money (including the hated CA sales tax) less mileage. I didn't get reimbursed for any aftermarket things on the vehicles - in fact they tried to charge me to "return" the vehicle to normal. They view chrome wheels installed by the dealer as aftermarket!

The 2nd time I wasn't completely successful. That was OK though, because I really like the vehicle (Porsche Cayenne GTS). I did get a few thousand out of the manufacturer for my troubles though and they fixed the problem!
 

·
Live it!
Joined
·
215 Posts
Can't Lemon Law a 2005 vehicle.
not entirely true.
if the current problem was noted(documented) while under warranty (especially prior to 18mo18k of original delivery date) and is still a problem with documented repairs, you may have a case.
 

·
Stihl Kicking
Joined
·
415 Posts
To qualify under the California Lemon Law or the federal Lemon Law, you must generally have a product that suffered multiple repair attempts under the manufacturer’s factory warranty.
if its still under warranty you may be able to get something.


My truck is an '05 and I still have 4 years and or 20k miles left on my warranty.
 

·
I'm baaaaack...
Joined
·
4,365 Posts
We had a 90 Daihastu, it was a real POS, multiple transmission problems, and we couldn't get it refunded. They did fix the car, but it took three transmissions to get a good one. It was from an old-school Lincoln dealer in Mission Valley that went under shortly thereafter.....
 

·
Ralphs club member
Joined
·
886 Posts
Can't Lemon Law a 2005 vehicle.
Ive seen used '2005-2006 powerstrokes @ a Ford dealer in long beach, advertised as "factory buy-back (lemon law) vehicles. They must take exception in some circumstances. Im sure its more difficult though, the older it gets. Unless they've been hanging on to those piles for a couple years on the lot!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
I had a early 2003 F350 single rear wheel 4X4 with a 6.0, THE BIGGEST POS that I ever had. It got 20MPG when I first got it, quit twice in 1500 miles, the same thing. some ECU sensor on the back of the left head. The dealer changed it the third time and took it for a test drive, aprox. 50 miles and it came back in on a wrecker at that time, same thing, had one more go out after that. When I got it back after all the crap I was down to about 12MPG and maybe 65% of the get up and go that it had. Ford bought it back when it was 8 months old with 5800 miles on it. Needless to say I was happy, they paid for the state sales tax, my purchase price, after market tires and rims, and all the bling on it, Aluminum box rails, pin striping and some other misc. things. I might be a glutton for punishment but if the new 6.7 works out in a year I might buy another one.
 
G

·
Ive seen used '2005-2006 powerstrokes @ a Ford dealer in long beach, advertised as "factory buy-back (lemon law) vehicles. They must take exception in some circumstances. Im sure its more difficult though, the older it gets. Unless they've been hanging on to those piles for a couple years on the lot!
In CA, based on the letter of the Lemon Law, a 6 year old vehicle is not eligible for a forced Lemon Law buy back.

California Lemon Law Statute


California Civil Code Section 1793.22.

(a)This section shall be known and may be cited as the Tanner Consumer Protection Act.

(b) It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle, whichever occurs first, one or more of the following occurs:

(1) The same nonconformity results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the nonconformity has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.

(2) The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.

(3) The vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer. The 30-day limit shall be extended only if repairs cannot be performed due to conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agents. The buyer shall be required to directly notify the manufacturer pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2) only if the manufacturer has clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the buyer, with the warranty or the owner's manual, the provisions of this section and that of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2, including the requirement that the buyer must notify the manufacturer directly pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2). The notification, if required, shall be sent to the address, if any, specified clearly and conspicuously by the manufacturer in the warranty or owner's manual. This presumption shall be a rebuttable presumption affecting the burden of proof, and it may be asserted by the buyer in any civil action, including an action in small claims court, or other formal or informal proceeding.

(c) If a qualified third-party dispute resolution process exists, and the buyer receives timely notification in writing of the availability of that qualified third-party dispute resolution process with a description of its operation and effect, the presumption in subdivision (b) may not be asserted by the buyer until after the buyer has initially resorted to the qualified third-party dispute resolution process as required in subdivision (d). Notification of the availability of the qualified third-party dispute resolution process is not timely if the buyer suffers any prejudice resulting from any delay in giving the notification. If a qualified third-party dispute resolution process does not exist, or if the buyer is dissatisfied with that third-party decision, or if the manufacturer or its agent neglects to promptly fulfill the terms of the qualified third-party dispute resolution process decision after the decision is accepted by the buyer, the buyer may assert the presumption provided in subdivision (b) in an action to enforce the buyer's rights under subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2. The findings and decision of a qualified third-party dispute resolution process shall be admissible in evidence in the action without further foundation. Any period of limitation of actions under any federal or California laws with respect to any person shall be extended for a period equal to the number of days between the date a complaint is filed with a third-party dispute resolution process and the date of its decision or the date before which the manufacturer or its agent is required by the decision to fulfill its terms if the decision is accepted by the buyer, whichever occurs later.

(d)A qualified third-party dispute resolution process shall be one that does all of the following:

(1) Complies with the minimum requirements of the Federal Trade Commission for informal dispute settlement procedures as set forth in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations, as those regulations read on January 1, 1987.

(2) Renders decisions which are binding on the manufacturer if the buyer elects to accept the decision.

(3) Prescribes a reasonable time, not to exceed 30 days after the decision is accepted by the buyer, within which the manufacturer or its agent must fulfill the terms of its decisions.

(4) Provides arbitrators who are assigned to decide disputes with copies of, and instruction in, the provisions of the Federal Trade Commission's regulations in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, and this chapter.

(5)Requires the manufacturer, when the process orders, under the terms of this chapter, either that the nonconforming motor vehicle be replaced if the buyer consents to this remedy or that restitution be made to the buyer, to replace the motor vehicle or make restitution in accordance with paragraph (2) of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2.

(6)Provides, at the request of the arbitrator or a majority of the arbitration panel, for an inspection and written report on the condition of a nonconforming motor vehicle, at no cost to the buyer, by an automobile expert who is independent of the manufacturer.

(7)Takes into account, in rendering decisions, all legal and equitable factors, including, but not limited to, the written warranty, the rights and remedies conferred in regulations of the Federal Trade Commission contained in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, this chapter, and any other equitable considerations appropriate in the circumstances. Nothing in this chapter requires that, to be certified as a qualified third-party dispute resolution process pursuant to this section, decisions of the process must consider or provide remedies in the form of awards of punitive damages or multiple damages, under subdivision (c) of Section 1794, or of attorneys' fees under subdivision (d) of Section 1794, or of consequential damages other than as provided in subdivisions (a) and(b)of Section 1794, including, but not limited to, reasonable repair, towing, and rental car costs actually incurred by the buyer.

(8)Requires that no arbitrator deciding a dispute may be a party to the dispute and that no other person, including an employee, agent, or dealer for the manufacturer, may be allowed to participate substantively in the merits of any dispute with the arbitrator unless the buyer is allowed toparticipate also. Nothing in this subdivision prohibits any member of anarbitration board from deciding a dispute.

(9)Obtains and maintains certification by the Department of Consumer Affairs pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 472) of Division 1 of the Business and Professions Code.

(e)For the purposes of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2 and this section, the following terms have the following meanings:

(1)"Nonconformity" means a nonconformity which substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the new motor vehicle to the buyer or lessee.

(2)"New motor vehicle" means a new motor vehicle that is bought or used primarily for personal, family, or household purposes. "New motor vehicle" also means a new motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight under 10,000 pounds that is bought or used primarily for business purposes by a person, including a partnership, limited liability company, corporation, association, or any other legal entity, to which not more than five motor vehicles are registered in this state. "New motor vehicle" includes the chassis, chassis cab, and that portion of a motor home devoted to its propulsion, but does not include any portion designed, used, or maintained primarily for human habitation, a dealer-owned vehicle and a "demonstrator" or other motor vehicle sold with a manufacturer's new car warranty but does not include a motorcycle or a motor vehicle which is not registered under the Vehicle Code because it is to be operated or used exclusively off the highways. A demonstrator is a vehicle assigned by a dealer for the purpose of demonstrating qualities and characteristics common to vehicles of the same or similar model and type.

(3)"Motor home" means a vehicular unit built on, or permanently attached to, a self-propelled motor vehicle chassis, chassis cab, or van, which becomes an integral part of the completed vehicle, designed for human habitation for recreational or emergency occupancy.

(f)

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall sell, either at wholesale or retail, lease, or transfer a motor vehicle transferred by a buyer or lessee to a manufacturer pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2 or a similar statute of any other state, unless thenature of the nonconformity experienced by the original buyer or lessee is clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the prospective buyer, lessee, or transferee, the nonconformity is corrected, and the manufacturer warrants to the new buyer, lessee, or transferee in writing for a period of one year that the motor vehicle is free of that nonconformity.

(2) Except for the requirement that the nature of the nonconformity be disclosed to the transferee, paragraph (1) does not apply to the transfer of a motor vehicle to an educational institution if the purpose of the transfer is to make the motor vehicle available for use in automotive repair courses.

[EFFECTIVE 1/1/2001. Amended September 26, 2000 (Bill Number: SB 1718) (Chapter 679).] [Previously Amended September 21, 1999 (Bill Number: AB 1290) (Chapter 448).] [Previously Amended July 12, 1999 (Bill Number: SB 966) (Chapter 83).]
 

·
Ralphs club member
Joined
·
886 Posts
In CA, based on the letter of the Lemon Law, a 6 year old vehicle is not eligible for a forced Lemon Law buy back.

California Lemon Law Statute


California Civil Code Section 1793.22.

(a)This section shall be known and may be cited as the Tanner Consumer Protection Act.

(b) It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle, whichever occurs first, one or more of the following occurs:

(1) The same nonconformity results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the nonconformity has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.

(2) The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.

(3) The vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer. The 30-day limit shall be extended only if repairs cannot be performed due to conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agents. The buyer shall be required to directly notify the manufacturer pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2) only if the manufacturer has clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the buyer, with the warranty or the owner's manual, the provisions of this section and that of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2, including the requirement that the buyer must notify the manufacturer directly pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2). The notification, if required, shall be sent to the address, if any, specified clearly and conspicuously by the manufacturer in the warranty or owner's manual. This presumption shall be a rebuttable presumption affecting the burden of proof, and it may be asserted by the buyer in any civil action, including an action in small claims court, or other formal or informal proceeding.

(c) If a qualified third-party dispute resolution process exists, and the buyer receives timely notification in writing of the availability of that qualified third-party dispute resolution process with a description of its operation and effect, the presumption in subdivision (b) may not be asserted by the buyer until after the buyer has initially resorted to the qualified third-party dispute resolution process as required in subdivision (d). Notification of the availability of the qualified third-party dispute resolution process is not timely if the buyer suffers any prejudice resulting from any delay in giving the notification. If a qualified third-party dispute resolution process does not exist, or if the buyer is dissatisfied with that third-party decision, or if the manufacturer or its agent neglects to promptly fulfill the terms of the qualified third-party dispute resolution process decision after the decision is accepted by the buyer, the buyer may assert the presumption provided in subdivision (b) in an action to enforce the buyer's rights under subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2. The findings and decision of a qualified third-party dispute resolution process shall be admissible in evidence in the action without further foundation. Any period of limitation of actions under any federal or California laws with respect to any person shall be extended for a period equal to the number of days between the date a complaint is filed with a third-party dispute resolution process and the date of its decision or the date before which the manufacturer or its agent is required by the decision to fulfill its terms if the decision is accepted by the buyer, whichever occurs later.

(d)A qualified third-party dispute resolution process shall be one that does all of the following:

(1) Complies with the minimum requirements of the Federal Trade Commission for informal dispute settlement procedures as set forth in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations, as those regulations read on January 1, 1987.

(2) Renders decisions which are binding on the manufacturer if the buyer elects to accept the decision.

(3) Prescribes a reasonable time, not to exceed 30 days after the decision is accepted by the buyer, within which the manufacturer or its agent must fulfill the terms of its decisions.

(4) Provides arbitrators who are assigned to decide disputes with copies of, and instruction in, the provisions of the Federal Trade Commission's regulations in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, and this chapter.

(5)Requires the manufacturer, when the process orders, under the terms of this chapter, either that the nonconforming motor vehicle be replaced if the buyer consents to this remedy or that restitution be made to the buyer, to replace the motor vehicle or make restitution in accordance with paragraph (2) of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2.

(6)Provides, at the request of the arbitrator or a majority of the arbitration panel, for an inspection and written report on the condition of a nonconforming motor vehicle, at no cost to the buyer, by an automobile expert who is independent of the manufacturer.

(7)Takes into account, in rendering decisions, all legal and equitable factors, including, but not limited to, the written warranty, the rights and remedies conferred in regulations of the Federal Trade Commission contained in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, this chapter, and any other equitable considerations appropriate in the circumstances. Nothing in this chapter requires that, to be certified as a qualified third-party dispute resolution process pursuant to this section, decisions of the process must consider or provide remedies in the form of awards of punitive damages or multiple damages, under subdivision (c) of Section 1794, or of attorneys' fees under subdivision (d) of Section 1794, or of consequential damages other than as provided in subdivisions (a) and(b)of Section 1794, including, but not limited to, reasonable repair, towing, and rental car costs actually incurred by the buyer.

(8)Requires that no arbitrator deciding a dispute may be a party to the dispute and that no other person, including an employee, agent, or dealer for the manufacturer, may be allowed to participate substantively in the merits of any dispute with the arbitrator unless the buyer is allowed toparticipate also. Nothing in this subdivision prohibits any member of anarbitration board from deciding a dispute.

(9)Obtains and maintains certification by the Department of Consumer Affairs pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 472) of Division 1 of the Business and Professions Code.

(e)For the purposes of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2 and this section, the following terms have the following meanings:

(1)"Nonconformity" means a nonconformity which substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the new motor vehicle to the buyer or lessee.

(2)"New motor vehicle" means a new motor vehicle that is bought or used primarily for personal, family, or household purposes. "New motor vehicle" also means a new motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight under 10,000 pounds that is bought or used primarily for business purposes by a person, including a partnership, limited liability company, corporation, association, or any other legal entity, to which not more than five motor vehicles are registered in this state. "New motor vehicle" includes the chassis, chassis cab, and that portion of a motor home devoted to its propulsion, but does not include any portion designed, used, or maintained primarily for human habitation, a dealer-owned vehicle and a "demonstrator" or other motor vehicle sold with a manufacturer's new car warranty but does not include a motorcycle or a motor vehicle which is not registered under the Vehicle Code because it is to be operated or used exclusively off the highways. A demonstrator is a vehicle assigned by a dealer for the purpose of demonstrating qualities and characteristics common to vehicles of the same or similar model and type.

(3)"Motor home" means a vehicular unit built on, or permanently attached to, a self-propelled motor vehicle chassis, chassis cab, or van, which becomes an integral part of the completed vehicle, designed for human habitation for recreational or emergency occupancy.

(f)

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall sell, either at wholesale or retail, lease, or transfer a motor vehicle transferred by a buyer or lessee to a manufacturer pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2 or a similar statute of any other state, unless thenature of the nonconformity experienced by the original buyer or lessee is clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the prospective buyer, lessee, or transferee, the nonconformity is corrected, and the manufacturer warrants to the new buyer, lessee, or transferee in writing for a period of one year that the motor vehicle is free of that nonconformity.

(2) Except for the requirement that the nature of the nonconformity be disclosed to the transferee, paragraph (1) does not apply to the transfer of a motor vehicle to an educational institution if the purpose of the transfer is to make the motor vehicle available for use in automotive repair courses.

[EFFECTIVE 1/1/2001. Amended September 26, 2000 (Bill Number: SB 1718) (Chapter 679).] [Previously Amended September 21, 1999 (Bill Number: AB 1290) (Chapter 448).] [Previously Amended July 12, 1999 (Bill Number: SB 966) (Chapter 83).]
There are 3 2008 "factory buy back" F250's for sale as of today, @ the ford dealer in long beach. Maybe they waited to resell them, and they fell within the 18 month timeframe, i dont know. I just know that they're for sale as we speak, and are 3 model years old. My friend was looking for a 08-10 superduty, and we saw a good deal on those 3, but they neglected to mention the "factory buy back" part of the vehicle till we got their :mad::mad::mad:
 

·
Just Me
Joined
·
4,107 Posts
By the Statute that Ultra posted he is 100% correct. As for 2008 vehicles being on a lot as a buy back, that is very easy to reach within the limit of the law although there is no guarantee that the vehicles were bought back from California. However, if the vehicle was a late 2008 and sold in early 2009 (many trucks don't get sold until after the model year closes out), it could easily have been bought back in fall of 2010 within the 18 months of service. Now given that the manufacturer has to guarentee them for at least a year and verify that the problem has been resolved, the trucks go back to the factory, get repaired, get extensive testing to ensure repair, and finally ship to a dealership. 3rd or 4th month of 2011 is definately not out of the question.

If someone has put up with a problem for 5 years it can't be that big of a problem. I traded off my 2008 F350 because it was hemoraging equity. If I could have forced a buy back, I would have made more money on it, which is why the law limits the time frame that this option is available.

But if you can get it to work, I wish you all the best and enjoy the new ride.
 

·
Live it!
Joined
·
215 Posts
By the Statute that Ultra posted he is 100% correct. ...
incorrect.
(as stated before:))
prior unrepaired issues while under warranty; no fault found issues then repaired, Calif Emissions warranty, and CPO vehicles can and does allow one to exercise their right and has been successful.
 

·
The Insurance Guy
Joined
·
1,922 Posts
I used Bill McGee law office in socal (858-485-9140) in my lemon law suit with Ford. The did a great job, Ford bought the truck back and it was a smooth process. Best part about this firm is they looked over everything up front and determined if it was even worht pursuing. This is all this firm does, so they are not gonna pursue a case they dont think they can win. Might make your decision for you right there
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,679 Posts
I might be a glutton for punishment but if the new 6.7 works out in a year I might buy another one.
Have had mine for a few months now and no issues. It's nice the new motor is all ford and not navstar/international.

The DPF cleaning cycle sucks though. Every 300 miles or so and it drops mileage down to about 11 highway during the 10-15min it runs.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top