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Discussion Starter #1
Just letting the score keepers know. Looks like the first win is a world title. Not a class win but the overall, Out lasted the turbines and the big blocks. congrats to team PURE INSANITY.


Hi BOB :happy::happy::happy:

here are the leg times 2012worlds.jpg
 

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Just letting the score keepers know. Looks like the first win is a world title. Not a class win but the overall, Out lasted the turbines and the big blocks. congrats to team PURE INSANITY.


Hi BOB :happy::happy::happy:

here are the leg times View attachment 157215
ah come oh BF. I have said all along that may be THEE sport where they will accel. VERY impressive!
How long was that race? Over how many days?



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Discussion Starter #3
I know Bob you just seem to be the one that takes all the heat. Race was the 13th to the 21st on four rivers total was to be 525 miles. With the cancelation of two legs of 22. The total was around 500 miles total time was 5:12:42 the next finisher was 6:10:19. There was 17 boats that took the challenge only four finnished with no time penalty.

ryan world.jpg
 

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It needs two turbos.......... :stir:


That is impressive.... I'd like to know more about the engine.

From the looks of it the longest runs were just about 30 minutes ?

S CP
 

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I know Bob you just seem to be the one that takes all the heat. Race was the 13th to the 21st on four rivers total was to be 525 miles. With the cancelation of two legs of 22. The total was around 500 miles total time was 5:12:42 the next finisher was 6:10:19. There was 17 boats that took the challenge only four finnished with no time penalty.

View attachment 157246
Walk in the park for a Ford Windsor:shhh:


That is a very impressive to say the least!
So, how did you do?



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Discussion Starter #8
Sleeper cp, Not much to say on the motor you take it out of the crate install the carb and headers and go racing. Yes the legs are kept short in an effort to make the race more spectator freindly. Most days are six legs. It has allways been a complaint from spectators on the long legs to only see the boats twice. The races are hosted by these small towns so the race officials try to provide the best experiance for the spectator and their dollars they bring with them. With out these small towns there would be no races.

GN7. The only thing I do good with on the windsor is find the weak point. But that was back in the old days and you could not keep the large end of the rod round. I was riding coat tails on the 285 boat. Ryan is without question the best driver for these rivers and with Gary on the navigation I would predict a class win the overall is a bit of a shocker. Their dedication and preperation are shown in their performance.
 

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Hauling the mail !!!

approx 95mph That is a very fast pace to set twisting on the river

over 50% faster than comp jet at Parker enduro

Do they allow outboards ?
 

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Hauling the mail !!!

approx 95mph That is a very fast pace to set twisting on the river

over 50% faster than comp jet at Parker enduro

Do they allow outboards ?
Yeah, but you are responsible for picking up all you broken off lower units along the way. No just leaving them laying around and sticking on a new one. How many do you figure you can carry in the canoe.

Bottomfeeder has been threatening to come to the 300 and run. That could be a huge eye opener for the comp jet boys. Might find one at Burley this year. That woud be way cool!

I know one thing for sure. If one of those white water boys shows up at Parker for the 300, that handicap they give the jets is going to be WAAAAAAAAY too much.



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Discussion Starter #11
Steve: They still run the little outboards in Hoopa and Grants pass. There was several boats back in the day that ran multi outboards Warren Shepard was the most competitive. In the 80's they were river races and anything could run, I watched a K boat dominate the Payette river race one year needles to say they had a set a hanging. Back then you had to have three in the boat. Driver,navigator, and Mechanic. Now just Driver and Navigator. I am sure if we could round up a few boats a class would not be a problem. One year we had a local dealer donate a dozen zodiacs with a 40 horse outboards on them and raced them down river about a 50 mile leg. I will never forget how much fun my brother and I had. We must have been pitched out of that thing a dozen times.

GN7 I will be at Burly to be a shore whore but the tin boats have been told/shown in the past they are not welcome. That is why I questioned you about the Parker race two years ago. We wanted to run last fall but Ryan was commited to the worlds as they were in the USA. I had a new hull built just for the parker race and will be testing before long. I hope to to get a couple of others to tow down and spend a day running hard and having fun. We are just a group of boat junkies, fast, slow, big, or small we will run them all.

O and we need all the handicap we can get. Rembember they are jet drive (never been competitive)

I would absolutely take any handicap I can get
 

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GN7 I will be at Burly to be a shore whore but the tin boats have been told/shown in the past they are not welcome. That is why I questioned you about the Parker race two years ago. We wanted to run last fall but Ryan was commited to the worlds as they were in the USA. I had a new hull built just for the parker race and will be testing before long. I hope to to get a couple of others to tow down and spend a day running hard and having fun. We are just a group of boat junkies, fast, slow, big, or small we will run them all.

O and we need all the handicap we can get. Rembember they are jet drive (never been competitive)

I would absolutely take any handicap I can get
Well thats just total BS. If the boat is safely built and assembled, and meets the safety requirements, which I have no doubt they do, and the engine is legal size, then that is just flat WRONG! When Rudy Ramos first started running a plywood v drive boat against the plank and direct drive boats, they tried to stop him. When he did the same with a fiberglass boat, it started all over again. I can not think of a single reason one of the boats is not legal as a Comp Jet.
If the things were v-driven, there would be zero reason that they couldn't run as a GN.


If you go Burley, make sure you stop by the pit and say HI!

Not competitive!hil:) hil:)



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Well thats just total BS. If the boat is safely built and assembled, and meets the safety requirements, which I have no doubt they do, and the engine is legal size, then that is just flat WRONG! When Rudy Ramos first started running a plywood v drive boat against the plank and direct drive boats, they tried to stop him. When he did the same with a fiberglass boat, it started all over again. I can not think of a single reason one of the boats is not legal as a Comp Jet.
If the things were v-driven, there would be zero reason that they couldn't run as a GN.

If you go Burley, make sure you stop by the pit and say HI!

Not competitive!hil:) hil:)
although i am no spokesman for anyone or any thing, knowing some of the scsc comp jet guys, i find it very very hard to believe any of 'em would have any problem running with a tin boat. but, just as a casual observer, there may be a few rules the tin boat guys might not care for too much.
i give kudo's to these guys doing what they do. it is certainly a different kind of insanity, and those boats are very good doing what they're designed to do. which is bounce off rocks and trees. but they are strapped into those high dollar hulls, surrounded by rollbars so they don't get ejected into said rocks and trees, or squished between the boat and said rocks and trees when the thing rolls over on 'em. it's certainly a logical safety measure for what they are doing. but i can't help but wonder where yonkers, bandy, etc., would be right now if they were strapped into their boats 2 weeks ago with a 5 or 7 point harness. not that anything like that could ever possibly happen with a tin boat trying to run a comp jet course. :) aside from that, again just as a casual observer, there are a few other things these guys would have to adjust to. not suggesting it's anything impossible, or that cannot be done.
gn, you seem to imply that all a tin boat has to do is drop it's dick in the dirt and they'll just drive circles around the current comp jet crowd. that's a nice theory - probably not very realistic...
 

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although i am no spokesman for anyone or any thing, knowing some of the scsc comp jet guys, i find it very very hard to believe any of 'em would have any problem running with a tin boat. but, just as a casual observer, there may be a few rules the tin boat guys might not care for too much.
i give kudo's to these guys doing what they do. it is certainly a different kind of insanity, and those boats are very good doing what they're designed to do. which is bounce off rocks and trees. but they are strapped into those high dollar hulls, surrounded by rollbars so they don't get ejected into said rocks and trees, or squished between the boat and said rocks and trees when the thing rolls over on 'em. it's certainly a logical safety measure for what they are doing. but i can't help but wonder where yonkers, bandy, etc., would be right now if they were strapped into their boats 2 weeks ago with a 5 or 7 point harness. not that anything like that could ever possibly happen with a tin boat trying to run a comp jet course. :) aside from that, again just as a casual observer, there are a few other things these guys would have to adjust to. not suggesting it's anything impossible, or that cannot be done.
gn, you seem to imply that all a tin boat has to do is drop it's dick in the dirt and they'll just drive circles around the current comp jet crowd. that's a nice theory - probably not very realistic...
Not suggesting it would be a cake walk, but at a place like Burley, I think one of those things might do something that would make the CJ guys take notice. Long Beach MIGHT be a different story.
I have talked to
bottom feeder about the roll bar and belts. It was discussed briefly in regards to the 300 enduro. The belts are definitely out. But that didn't seem to be a big factor for Bottomfeeder. I aggree, in the races we do, the roll bar and belts may not be the ideal setup. But believe it our not, in the APBA, there is such a thing as a an open restrained cockit, with no air. They are used in some hydros, and Jersy Skiffs.

As for the running one in the 300, I would all but sell my house and put the money on a white water jet against ANY CJ I have ever seen run the 300.



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Not suggesting it would be a cake walk, but at a place like Burley, I think one of those things might do something that would make the CJ guys take notice. Long Beach MIGHT be a different story.
parker might have also been a different story.

I have talked to bottom feeder about the roll bar and belts. It was discussed briefly in regards to the 300 enduro. The belts are definitely out. But that didn't seem to be a big factor for Bottomfeeder. I aggree, in the races we do, the roll bar and belts may not be the ideal setup. But believe it our not, in the APBA, there is such a thing as a an open restrained cockit, with no air. They are used in some hydros, and Jersy Skiffs.
again, not representing any one or any thing, just as a casual observer. but i've -heard- that there's a rule (at least in cj) that a boat's rooster tail can be no higher than the drivers head. just what i heard. and yes, i have watched videos of the tin boats running along, and it seems to me their roosters are a tad higher than that. just an observation... what i do know is that when you go about making changes to address things like that, it does have an effect on the boats performance...

As for the running one in the 300, I would all but sell my house and put the money on a white water jet against ANY CJ I have ever seen run the 300.
i've seen one jet at the 300 a couple of times that seems to do quite well. it's not a cj. and it's not tin. from what i can tell as a casual observer, there are not too many cj's that are set up to run a marathon. most seem to be set up to run shorter courses with 1 or 2 pin turns. and last but not least, from what i can tell, the marathon is all about attrition - don't think i'd be betting any houses on anything out there actually finishing the thing. other than maybe war canoe. :)hand

again, these boats are the best at their application. the drivers are certifiably insane. they go very fast down hill, bouncing off rocks or trees or anything else they happen to run over. maybe a moose or two.

but i've heard it all before. how wonderful and great these things are, and how they're taking over the entire world of jetboats in every race format. yet none of 'em have ever shown up at a drag race, none of 'em have ever shown up at the 300, and none of 'em have ever tried to run with the cj's in THEIR format. it's not like the hull design is top secret - they are modV tunnel jets, which have been around for about 35 years. and if modV tunnels were all that in cj sprint racing, don't you think the courses would be full of 'em instead of libertys or rogers or other v-bottoms that are designed to run in that format??? not saying it's impossible or could never happen, but knowing a little bit about jets, i gotta see it first...:)
 

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Not sure myself what the rule is on the jet spray. I know of at least on jet that seems to surpass that rule regularly. May have double check that at the next race to be sure, but it sure seems like it.
The best performing jet at the 300 seems to be the Cyclone that runs the Ford. But he still was way never really showed be alot. Everybody was all concerned because it was running that Boss 9 this past year and looked fearsom. I just shrugged it off. I been in too many of those races to concern myself with the powerplant in any of them. Well except that...........that twin cam, 4 valve, twin turbo'd 540 1350HP Merc in the Nordic. You just knew that thing was going to haul ass, and do it all day long.

EDIT: just checked the rules and it states no more than 5 feet. Thats more than a drivers head seated in the boat!



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Discussion Starter #17
bp298: You are absolutly right on the jet spray height. It is no more of a concern on a tin hull as it is on a fiberglass hull, Just a rule that has to be conformed to. You are wrong on the rock bashing and such. A rock strike is a DNF 99% of the time. This year there was more boat damage from wave strikes than anything (pressure dents). The adjustments required to make the boat compliant , Less up nozzle and the required rudder are minnimal to performance.

GN7: The comp jet guys are great. I have never heard of anyone complaining of a tin boat wanting to run with them. Burly wants to showcase the "low profile fiberglass 80'S style" boats. Everyone is totaly cool with that. Our season is short so some people would be intrested in getting some more racing in hence looking to other events. Either way there are allways rivers in our areas that are never crowded and quite enjoyable to run, its pretty cheap to stay home.
 

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Not sure myself what the rule is on the jet spray. I know of at least on jet that seems to surpass that rule regularly. May have double check that at the next race to be sure, but it sure seems like it.
The best performing jet at the 300 seems to be the Cyclone that runs the Ford. But he still was way never really showed be alot. Everybody was all concerned because it was running that Boss 9 this past year and looked fearsom. I just shrugged it off. I been in too many of those races to concern myself with the powerplant in any of them. Well except that...........that twin cam, 4 valve, twin turbo'd 540 1350HP Merc in the Nordic. You just knew that thing was going to haul ass, and do it all day long.

EDIT: just checked the rules and it states no more than 5 feet. Thats more than a drivers head seated in the boat!
gn, it's a modV tunnel jetboat. and it had some serious mods to allow the thing to turn decently. i'm not implying it would run over any gn boats - especially when the gn's are leaving in the first flight :). and it probably wouldn't do all that great on a shorter course. but for what it was/is, it was running quite well whether it was in clean water or in a mess.

again, not representing anyone or any thing, but as a casual observer the spray issue came up in the first main attempt. it was observed, it was discussed, end of story. point was only that it -could- be an issue.

bp298: You are absolutly right on the jet spray height. It is no more of a concern on a tin hull as it is on a fiberglass hull, Just a rule that has to be conformed to. You are wrong on the rock bashing and such. A rock strike is a DNF 99% of the time. This year there was more boat damage from wave strikes than anything (pressure dents). The adjustments required to make the boat compliant , Less up nozzle and the required rudder are minnimal to performance.

GN7: The comp jet guys are great. I have never heard of anyone complaining of a tin boat wanting to run with them. Burly wants to showcase the "low profile fiberglass 80'S style" boats. Everyone is totaly cool with that. Our season is short so some people would be intrested in getting some more racing in hence looking to other events. Either way there are allways rivers in our areas that are never crowded and quite enjoyable to run, its pretty cheap to stay home.
bf, it is always cheaper and easier to stay home. or do like gn has contemplated; install some viewing windows on the trailer and weld the doors shut. as far as crowded, 8 or 10 cj's headed into the first turn is a bit more crowded than anything i would like to be in the middle of... just from observing.
i do think it would be great if you did it. but i also think there's more to setting up a cj to be competitive than gn seems to think...
 

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GN7: The comp jet guys are great. I have never heard of anyone complaining of a tin boat wanting to run with them. Burly wants to showcase the "low profile fiberglass 80'S style" boats. Everyone is totaly cool with that. Our season is short so some people would be intrested in getting some more racing in hence looking to other events. Either way there are allways rivers in our areas that are never crowded and quite enjoyable to run, its pretty cheap to stay home.

That MIGHT have been the case THEN, when the CJ's weren't an APBA class and were only being run at Burley as a local class. It was their race, and they could call the shots. It is once again a APBA class with written rules. No where do the rules state that the boat has to have some "low profile performance look". It has an OAL rule and but nothing else regarding the "shape or profile" of the hull. If it meets the other rules, primarily safety rules, it runs. PERIOD.

i do think it would be great if you did it. but i also think there's more to setting up a cj to be competitive than gn seems to think...
I will be the very first to admit that what I know about setting up a CJ wouldn't half fill a thimble. I am not even suggesting that the white water boats would be competitive in CJ sprint races. In a 300 miler, I think they have what it takes to hang with any CJ I have ever seen at the 300 and that was the original talk BF and I had. Not about a short course sprint race, and certainly not on a course like Long Beach or Parker's print races.

At Puddingstone and Burley, they might be more competitive that many think. I just think it would be cool if a couple came to Burley or the 300 and ran with the others.



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sleeper cp, not much to say on the motor you take it out of the crate install the carb and headers and go racing. Yes the legs are kept short in an effort to make the race more spectator freindly. Most days are six legs. It has allways been a complaint from spectators on the long legs to only see the boats twice. The races are hosted by these small towns so the race officials try to provide the best experiance for the spectator and their dollars they bring with them. With out these small towns there would be no races.
ct525?
 
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