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Discussion Starter #1
I have a mild 11:1 BBC in my jet boat right now (well...on a stand next to it...as usual)..... Winter plans are a 15 or 16:1 505bbc (whatever compression ratio will work with 93 octane and a meth injection kit). Shooting for the 800hp range on motor. If that doesn't get me over the 100mph lake boat number, then it'll get a little nitrous. Maybe 150.

Currently I have an MSD 7al2, Pro Power coil, and Billet distributor that has never been wired in this boat. I'd like to keep my wiring as simple as possible, and also keep things as neat as possible. It's no show boat, but I don't want it cluttered up if it's not needed.

Should I keep my setup, and just hide it all as best I can, or trade/sell and get a magneto?
 

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I have a mild 11:1 BBC in my jet boat right now (well...on a stand next to it...as usual)..... Winter plans are a 15 or 16:1 505bbc (whatever compression ratio will work with 93 octane and a meth injection kit). Shooting for the 800hp range on motor. If that doesn't get me over the 100mph lake boat number, then it'll get a little nitrous. Maybe 150.

Currently I have an MSD 7al2, Pro Power coil, and Billet distributor that has never been wired in this boat. I'd like to keep my wiring as simple as possible, and also keep things as neat as possible. It's no show boat, but I don't want it cluttered up if it's not needed.

Should I keep my setup, and just hide it all as best I can, or trade/sell and get a magneto?
You have bigger problems than choosing between a mag and a MSD. Did you mean to say on METH and a 93 injection kit just so you can say its on gas?



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Discussion Starter #3
No. I meant it how I said it.


I am young and dumb (not dumb, but not on par with many of you guys) but I have seen several high compression applications running 93 octane with a methanol injection kit and be equal to (power wise) or even gain power when they switch over from race gas due to lower intake temps. If I'm wrong (and I very well may be), and 93 + meth injection will not support 15:1, then please set me straight before I waste money on parts.

I'm not running race gas in a lake boat, and I don't want to rely on E-85 being around forever.
 

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If you do not want to run Race Gas in a Lake Boat then build it with about 10-1 compression if it is N/A. You go to injecting stuff where will that leave your tune??? I takes some big bucks to build 800 hp N/A. And I would use the MSD stuff.
 

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No. I meant it how I said it.


I am young and dumb (not dumb, but not on par with many of you guys) but I have seen several high compression applications running 93 octane with a methanol injection kit and be equal to (power wise) or even gain power when they switch over from race gas due to lower intake temps. If I'm wrong (and I very well may be), and 93 + meth injection will not support 15:1, then please set me straight before I waste money on parts.

I'm not running race gas in a lake boat, and I don't want to rely on E-85 being around forever.
You'd be better off running e85.
You can't take a perfectly tuned engine on 93 and dump enough meth into it to raise the detonation limit high enough to support 15 to one and not screw over the A/F if you don't add air. How do you plan to add the additional air into the engine when the MASSIVE amounts of meth are introduced to the engine. If ALL the available air is use to burn the "properly tuned" amount of 93, then you need ADDITIONAL air to burn the meth you toss in there. You're not going to get away with some tiny ass little spit of meth with 15 to 1 deal.
This isn't some boosted deal where your down on cylinder pressure when not boosted and injecting it as needed when the cylinder pressures jump. Its going to be high right off idle. Going to spray meth right off idle.

I doubt you could even drive the thing without spraying the meth, and you have no additional air to allow for the additional fuel?



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If you do not want to run Race Gas in a Lake Boat then build it with about 10-1 compression if it is N/A. You go to injecting stuff where will that leave your tune??? I takes some big bucks to build 800 hp N/A. And I would use the MSD stuff.
:))THumbsUp

With the amount of meth he will have to throw at that thing, he'll prbably need a MSD 44 just to light it off.



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Discussion Starter #8
Will dual E-85 dominators support a 15 or 16:1 505" deal?


Rough draft plans are.... tall deck 427, 100 over, 4.25 crank, 16:1 pistons, 6.800 rods, Brodix BB2 heads, dual 1050 dominators



If I'm going wrong, I'm all ears
 

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Dave,
IMHO, Bob and Evil are steering you straight. 1) It is a little harder than you think to get 15 or 16:1 CR out of a 505". Possible, but a pretty tight chambered deal. 2) Once you exceed the 10:1 CR range you need to be thinking about some form of improoved fuel be it racing gasoline or methanol. 14:1 and better, you need to be looking at C-14 or equivalent or an injected alky unit. 3) I don't know why you are so adament against racing fuel. It is kind of a pay me now or pay me later kind of a situation. The racing fuel will allow you to run increased compression and make increased HP. A lower octane fuel on the compressions you mentioned will cause detonation which will result in a lower power output and damaged parts. For me the fuel is the cheaper part of the equation in relation to a good engine and the money and effort put forth to put it together.

You mentioned pressurized system. Many of these systems utilize intercoolers and such to keep the inlet and resulting cylinder temps down, but on a max effort deal such as what Haas and Stallion are doing, I believe they are both running C-16.

BTW, the MSD 7AL2 will be fine for you.

Not trying to be smart alleck at all, but the old phrase comes to mind... "Speed cost, how fast do you want to go?"

Have a GREAT Evening:)
 

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Dave,
IMHO, Bob and Evil are steering you straight. 1) It is a little harder than you think to get 15 or 16:1 CR out of a 505". Possible, but a pretty tight chambered deal.

Have a GREAT Evening:)
I figured he had you in his corner setting him up with a set of trick 11[SUP]o[/SUP] 60cc figure 8 chambers with a compound valve lay out that were sent off to CP for digitizing for the domes and a cam grinder that knows EXACTLY when he can really kick the intake valve;)
Yeah, compression ratios that high in a 505 with a 118 chamber don't come easy.

You hit a point where you either put it on meth or race "gas" or you don't do it at all. This "meth spray" thing doesn't get it get it done in a N/A deal with those kinds of pressures.



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Dave,
IMHO, Bob and Evil are steering you straight. 1) It is a little harder than you think to get 15 or 16:1 CR out of a 505". Possible, but a pretty tight chambered deal. 2) Once you exceed the 10:1 CR range you need to be thinking about some form of improoved fuel be it racing gasoline or methanol. 14:1 and better, you need to be looking at C-14 or equivalent or an injected alky unit. 3) I don't know why you are so adament against racing fuel. It is kind of a pay me now or pay me later kind of a situation. The racing fuel will allow you to run increased compression and make increased HP. A lower octane fuel on the compressions you mentioned will cause detonation which will result in a lower power output and damaged parts. For me the fuel is the cheaper part of the equation in relation to a good engine and the money and effort put forth to put it together.

You mentioned pressurized system. Many of these systems utilize intercoolers and such to keep the inlet and resulting cylinder temps down, but on a max effort deal such as what Haas and Stallion are doing, I believe they are both running C-16.

BTW, the MSD 7AL2 will be fine for you.

Not trying to be smart alleck at all, but the old phrase comes to mind... "Speed cost, how fast do you want to go?"

Have a GREAT Evening:)
Gearhead is right on the money. :))THumbsUp
I know everyone is tired of us beating the turbo drum, but, I cruise around all over the place on 91 pump gas. Then turn on the c-16 when ready to race. I have a couple drains coming from my carb bowls and plumbed through an nos fuel solenoid and back to the tank. It has a couple site glasses plumbed in so when I switch over to the C-16 I just hold the button till I see the site glasses turn nice & blue, then I know all of the pump gas is out of the system and the C is there. Only takes a few seconds. I'm pretty tight with my $$ so the instant that I'm done making passes I go back and switch back to the pump gas. You know, no need burning the good stuff to get back to the beach :rolleyes:
Doing it this way you only need 5-6gal of the C-16, and you can buy the pump gas at any station so no need to haul alot of fuel.
Go ahead and plan to go boosted and be done with it . jmo.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
C-16 is what? $15 a gallon? That's a $400 fill up. Every weekend for 4 or 5 months out of the year. I understand the pay me now or pay me later deal, but I figure at the HP I'm looking for, there's a way around a $400 fuel up. If I just went out twice a month when it's warm, that's $4000 in fuel. I don't just sit on the bank with my boat, I'm likely to go through 15 gallons a day on the current setup (500-550hp on pump gas).

In short... I don't mind springing for good quality parts to make HP and be reliable, but I'm not loaded. $400 fill up for the boat, fuel for the tow rig, camping, etc...... Not in my budget. Much less, I don't think it's needed for my HP goals.

All things considered, should I do a low compression FI setup? (Procharged would be my 1st choice) on e85, or pump with meth injection?
 

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Gearhead is right on the money. :))THumbsUp
I know everyone is tired of us beating the turbo drum, but, I cruise around all over the place on 91 pump gas. Then turn on the c-16 when ready to race. I have a couple drains coming from my carb bowls and plumbed through an nos fuel solenoid and back to the tank. It has a couple site glasses plumbed in so when I switch over to the C-16 I just hold the button till I see the site glasses turn nice & blue, then I know all of the pump gas is out of the system and the C is there. Only takes a few seconds.
Doing it this way you only need 5-6gal of the C-16, and you can buy the pump gas at any station so no need to haul alot of fuel.
Go ahead and plan to go boosted and be done with it . jmo.
OK, now thats just sick:wink2:

Doing that is easily achievable with a boosted deal. On a N/A, you probably couldn't even drive a 15 to 1 deal on 93. Even a light weight like me!



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Discussion Starter #15
I have several e85 stations right around my house... If that's my best choice, then it is what it is, and I'll build for it if I have too.
 

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C-16 is what? $15 a gallon? That's a $400 fill up. Every weekend for 4 or 5 months out of the year. I understand the pay me now or pay me later deal, but I figure at the HP I'm looking for, there's a way around a $400 fuel up. If I just went out twice a month when it's warm, that's $4000 in fuel. I don't just sit on the bank with my boat, I'm likely to go through 15 gallons a day on the current setup (500-550hp on pump gas).

In short... I don't mind springing for good quality parts to make HP and be reliable, but I'm not loaded. $400 fill up for the boat, fuel for the tow rig, camping, etc...... Not in my budget. Much less, I don't think it's needed for my HP goals.

All things considered, should I do a low compression FI setup? (Procharged would be my 1st choice) on e85, or pump with meth injection?
Your not understanding/listening. Go with a lower comp(9-1) boosted engine and when just cruising around and not in boost you can run the pump junk. You can get away with 8-10psi of boost on a 8.5-1 aluminum headed intercooled engine with timing control and cool engine temps. Then if you feel the need to make a hard -high boost pass have a small tank of the C-16 to turn on. You will hardly burn any of the c because your only burning it while WFO. It wont get any cheaper than that.
 

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Haas... We replied at the same time, the C-16 gripe wasn't aimed at your comment
No worries. The C-16 is very expensive but i bought a full drum last summer and have been out quite a bit and made many passes and still have over half a drum. I think it was about $800 for the Drum. so about $400 a yr for the c. I dont think thats to bad for the peace of mind that I have the fuel designed for what I'm doing. Burning a whole drum of the C-16 is ALOT of passes doing it this way.
 

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No worries. The C-16 is very expensive but i bought a full drum last summer and have been out quite a bit and made many passes and still have over half a drum. I think it was about $800 for the Drum. so about $400 a yr for the c. I dont think thats to bad for the peace of mind that I have the fuel designed for what I'm doing. Burning a whole drum of the C-16 is ALOT of passes doing it this way.
Really? we burnt 60 gallons at Long Beach this last race, and 75 in Burley the race before. Only took 2 days and about 60 total minutes on the water. The stuff is CHEAP!:rolleyes:



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OK, now thats just sick:wink2:

Doing that is easily achievable with a boosted deal. On a N/A, you probably couldn't even drive a 15 to 1 deal on 93. Even a light weight like me!
Good idea huh? :wink2: check the pic, sorry for the quality but you can see the drains-sight glasses & fuel solenoid.
 

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Really? we burnt 60 gallons at Long Beach this last race, and 75 in Burley the race before. Only took 2 days and about 60 total minutes on the water. The stuff is CHEAP!:rolleyes:
I think we're talking about a little different application here with his lake boat that he wants to occasionally run over 100mph with. :rolleyes:
 
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