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Crazy Eights
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Discussion Starter #1
I have had really bad luck with MSD for too long and decided to switch over to a magneto.

I picked up a Mallory SprintMag 1. It was gone through and recharged about 6 years ago, but only used once to break in a motor before I bought it. I have heard mixed things about the magnets in these things. I heard they will get weak over time, but also heard they only get weak with use. So what is it? I understand the 'rare earth magnets' dont need recharges, but the sprintmag 1's didnt come with those.

Also, what do you guys suggest using for a rev limiter? I run this boat in compjet and its WOT 90% of the time and the pump is unloading often and I bang my 7k chip like a cheap whore. I have found this one (linked below). I like it because they say there is no back firing when youre against the limiter by absorbing the energy of the mag. Anyone have any luck with these?

http://fuelinjectionent.com/webstore/product_info.php?cPath=22_31&products_id=161&osCsid=orf2ghd5uu5jcudgqpm2ku11r7

Second, while trying to fire the boat in the water with the water resistance on the pump....the starter struggles to turn the motor over quick enough to generate enough RPM's to create a spark. Mallory makes a start assist box. Does anyone suggest using this? Will it help with this problem?

Lastly, What is the proper way to time these things? Should I be using a 'buzz box'? or will a timing light be sufficient?
 

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Time it with one of these.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Ignition-Timing-Light,922.html
And I use that same rev limiter and have had good luck with it. Just mount it with some kind of cover to keep it from getting wet.
I hear all this BS about the mags being hard starting and I have never experienced it. Although I've ran my mag for 11yrs now. I'm cranking this 555 over with a battery so small that looks like a motorcyle battery and it starts it just fine. Even in the water. And I dont do the whirl it over then turn the mag on BS. I start it off the key just like any other ignition.

Cool thing is , with a mag & mech fuel pump & guages, you're sure not asking much of the battery.
 

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I'm famous !
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I do not have experience with the Mag one . I have a Mag 2 in the jet boat . I ran it 14 years trouble free . I would suggest calling Mallory in NV. and asking their oppinion . You may even pick up a sponsor . I ran a Mag 4 trouble free with my Blower motor .
 

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Kinda hard to read you....are you being sarcastic or what? If I am making a mistake running a mag, what do you suggest running? I want a fail proof system. MSD has proved to me its not worth a damn over and over.
Most anything can break, especially in the circle stuff where everything gets wet. I like mags and run one in my boat. Ran Vertex stuff for years before the lack of a rev limiter cost me a motor. Now I run a MSD 12, and it has a built in rev limiter.

Just saying there are more than one ignition company out there. 3 mags failed at the BWR 300 enduro. so they aren't all that fail safe either.
Heard some MSD's died too ;)
 

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Heard some MSD's died too ;)
At least 2 that I know of for sure!:)hand

I will say this. Mags are much more idiot proof. The over whelming majority of MSD failures are installation caused. And I am as guilty as anybody. They will not tolerate shitting connections to the power supply or a crappy ground.

If I could clear the blowr with one, I would run a good HEI.



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Is there not anyone that runs a box that is something other than MSD?? I ran a crane for a few years with 0 problems (not racing or anything, but still) I've heard lots of great things about the Jacobs, pertronix and even the mallory boxes. most of them have better specs than the msd junk and if i'm not mistaken all of them are digital, not analog. Why does everyone run MSD when there's ALWAYS constant talk about them failing?? I agree with GN7, I'd go to HEI before a mag, but I'd first try something other than an MSD box...plus the others are typically cheaper.

Andrew
 

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At least 2 that I know of for sure!:)hand

I will say this. Mags are much more idiot proof. The over whelming majority of MSD failures are installation caused. And I am as guilty as anybody. They will not tolerate shitting connections to the power supply or a crappy ground.

If I could clear the blowr with one, I would run a good HEI.
That's the big deal right there. The vast majority of MSD boxes that failed are caused by some form of power or ground wiring issue.
 

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Rex, I will be the first to admit that the 2 boxes we lost in the enduro were due to a loose battery connection. You get it right, and get it tight, or they will bite you. If your having trouble with your MSDs failing, look at your deal and stop blaming MSD. In any thing that has a battery and runs on gas, its the best ignition for the money.
You don't see mags in NHRA ProStockers, F1 has moved past even MSDs, but wouldn't even look at a mag. When Indy cars started carrying batteries and alternators because of the EFI/engine mangament, and telemetry, the mags were thrown in the round recipticle and sat out for the trash man. I don't think think there is a self starting, wheeled racing vehicle using a mag. None. Only the boat guys even consider mags when equiped with a battery.
When boats starting being made of fiberglass, it was due time to dump the mag.



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Crazy Eights
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Discussion Starter #13
I'm not gunna argue with you nor try to prove that I had my setup wired correctly. but I have had problems with my setup, send it to MSD, they say they fixed it....even had a coil arching to a post.

I had a 6AL box and had some serious sputtering issues at top end. I chased this issues for months....finally I borrowed a supermag and the problem went away. I sent the 6AL box to MSD, they said there was no issues with it....I then rewired the entire boat......I had 12 gauge wire run from the box straight to the battery terminals and attached solid. The box died stone cold after the 1st heat of running it. Call it what you want - bottom line in my book is its unreliable.
 

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Rex, I will be the first to admit that the 2 boxes we lost in the enduro were due to a loose battery connection. You get it right, and get it tight, or they will bite you. If your having trouble with your MSDs failing, look at your deal and stop blaming MSD. In any thing that has a battery and runs on gas, its the best ignition for the money.
You don't see mags in NHRA ProStockers, F1 has moved past even MSDs, but wouldn't even look at a mag. When Indy cars started carrying batteries and alternators because of the EFI/engine mangament, and telemetry, the mags were thrown in the round recipticle and sat out for the trash man. I don't think think there is a self starting, wheeled racing vehicle using a mag. None. Only the boat guys even consider mags when equiped with a battery.
When boats starting being made of fiberglass, it was due time to dump the mag.
All of this depends on what you're doing. An all out NA or nitrous motor, I wouldn't use anything but a MSD. In our car I've worked with Crane stuff a while back. Complete, total, utterly worthless crap. IT might be better now, but they'll never see a dime from me again. Lost most of a season trying to make it work and never did. Put a MSD in it, and it ran perfect for the next 5 years until I sold it. It's still in there today. HEI? Only if the rules required it. For a battery based ignition, MSD's the best and a walk through the Pro Stock pits proves this.
That said, I'd bet 98% of those around here are NOT max efforts by a long shot, and a mag is totally viable alternative. MSD's are prone to installation woes, don't tolerate gettng wet and work best with an alternator. Mag, pretty much bullet proof and if the boat starts, it's gonna run. Put a blower on it with alky, and a CD type ignition is gonna be problems. Dont' see many CD ingintion in top alcohol/fuel do ya???
And in a hot rod lake boat, I think a vertex mag, Jones tach and a mechanical pump with only a start button and a kill switch is cooler than hell!!! In the final analysis, run what works best for you, but don't let anyone tell you a mag won't make reliable power because they do.
 

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Rex, I will be the first to admit that the 2 boxes we lost in the enduro were due to a loose battery connection. You get it right, and get it tight, or they will bite you. If your having trouble with your MSDs failing, look at your deal and stop blaming MSD. In any thing that has a battery and runs on gas, its the best ignition for the money.
You don't see mags in NHRA ProStockers, F1 has moved past even MSDs, but wouldn't even look at a mag. When Indy cars started carrying batteries and alternators because of the EFI/engine mangament, and telemetry, the mags were thrown in the round recipticle and sat out for the trash man. I don't think think there is a self starting, wheeled racing vehicle using a mag. None. Only the boat guys even consider mags when equiped with a battery.
When boats starting being made of fiberglass, it was due time to dump the mag.
All of those cars use so much onboard electronics that the emi from the mag would f-ck with.
 

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All of this depends on what you're doing. An all out NA or nitrous motor, I wouldn't use anything but a MSD. In our car I've worked with Crane stuff a while back. Complete, total, utterly worthless crap. IT might be better now, but they'll never see a dime from me again. Lost most of a season trying to make it work and never did. Put a MSD in it, and it ran perfect for the next 5 years until I sold it. It's still in there today. HEI? Only if the rules required it. For a battery based ignition, MSD's the best and a walk through the Pro Stock pits proves this.
That said, I'd bet 98% of those around here are NOT max efforts by a long shot, and a mag is totally viable alternative. MSD's are prone to installation woes, don't tolerate gettng wet and work best with an alternator. Mag, pretty much bullet proof and if the boat starts, it's gonna run. Put a blower on it with alky, and a CD type ignition is gonna be problems. Dont' see many CD ingintion in top alcohol/fuel do ya???
And in a hot rod lake boat, I think a vertex mag, Jones tach and a mechanical pump with only a start button and a kill switch is cooler than hell!!! In the final analysis, run what works best for you, but don't let anyone tell you a mag won't make reliable power because they do.
Mags are not bullet proof. This years circle season and the enduro pretty much put that to bed. But they are almost idiot proof. And MSDs are anything but idiot proof. I know. the boys running gas in ANY type of racing EXCEPT boats, would run a mag if they were free.



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I'm not gunna argue with you nor try to prove that I had my setup wired correctly. but I have had problems with my setup, send it to MSD, they say they fixed it....even had a coil arching to a post.

I had a 6AL box and had some serious sputtering issues at top end. I chased this issues for months....finally I borrowed a supermag and the problem went away. I sent the 6AL box to MSD, they said there was no issues with it....I then rewired the entire boat......I had 12 gauge wire run from the box straight to the battery terminals and attached solid. The box died stone cold after the 1st heat of running it. Call it what you want - bottom line in my book is its unreliable.
Brad, I understand your frustration. But let me point out a couple of things that jumped at me in this post. First, coil arcing to the terminals is as common as air and dirt. Read this thread:http://www.performanceboats.com/showthread.php?78757-MSD-Ingition-coil-question
Number one reason it does that, crappy spark plug wires. Also, too wide a gap at the plug, bad plug, and compression. MSDs are also the most misunderstood, most abused ignition in the world. You wouldn't run cast pistons and a cast crank in a blown alky deal, but you'll run a Blaster Street coil in a 12-12.5 to 1 jet boat. The tin can blaster coil is just that, a middle of the road, low dollar street coil. Ask it to fire a 6500 12 to 1 motor, and it might arc to the terminals. don't blame the coil. It was never designed to do that. And arcing to the termainals can take down the box.
Also, we run a #10 wire to the battery, an its only 2 ft long. A #12, 5 or 6 ft long could spell trouble.

And the number 1 thing that I have seen take out boxes by far. Slow ass cranking with a huge am draw that pulls the voltage to the box down while cranking. It will blow the fuse every time.

Not saying they are perfect. They aren't. But they take a bad rap for things they shouldn't.
Think about the money on the line everytime a Nascar enters the track, or a Pro stock comes to the line. Think they would use MSDs if they were that faulty? I will guarantee you this. they are installed to the nth degree, and they are using the good stuff. Not a tin can coil to be found on any of them, and they are using sparkplug wire with about a 50 ohm per foot rating.



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Not saying they are perfect. They aren't. But they take a bad rap for things they shouldn't.
Think about the money on the line everytime a Nascar enters the track, or a Pro stock comes to the line. Think they would use MSDs if they were that faulty? I will guarantee you this. they are installed to the nth degree, and they are using the good stuff. Not a tin can coil to be found on any of them, and they are using sparkplug wire with about a 50 ohm per foot rating.
Bob back quite a few years ago when we got our MSD boxes, when I worked at MB2 Motorsports, and they came in real nice hard plastic boxes full of foam and there were two bright red perfect MSD boxes in each one. Now most of the stuff we get are thrown around at Summit Jegs or where ever and then UPS or the US Postal Service gets them and does the same thing, I would hate to see what FedX does to them. Up untill this last race I never had a problem with MSD and I swore that if I did I would use something else. The problem is there is really nothing else out there that you can get that has the same bag for the buck.
 

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Jim, there is no doubt that MSD's QC and business model has slipped since they sold the company. Maybe it because they are trying to compete with www.YOU KNOW WHO or they cut back to help pay back the investment they spent buying the company. But it isn't the same company it was 5 years ago.

I have gotten to where I fix the blown fuses myself. To date I have yet to have a box fail for any other reason. Not saying it can't, or hasn't happened. Just hasn't happened to me yet. But MSD has to get their act together, or someone else will. Mallory went though this with the unilites years ago and now look at their sales and following now. But I will try a Mallory or I.C.E.or anything else if I have any troubles with MSD that I can't blame on myself.



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