[74Bonneville]

Calling GN7 and all others

Every 2 or 3 times out I run a compression check and look under the valve covers. After compression check I pulled valve cover to look and double check valve lash and this is what I found. All of the shavings were on even side 2,4,6,8. I noticed 1 piece on valve cover gasket. I used a magnet and picked up most of this in back above #8 cylinder in the pool of oil that sits in the corner.

What's coming apart? Valve guides?

Piece on my finger was biggest piece

A little back ground, when I built this motor a couple of years ago I did a lot of research, unfortunately I had not found this site yet. I bought my JE flat top pistons & rings from Teague Marine (5 minutes from my house) when I was picking them up Bob was kind enough to come up and ask me what I was up too. Building my engine around my Procharger Bob offered me the specs he uses for the pistons bore & ring gap on a blower motor, he wrote them down on the box and I told my machine shop to do this. What I didn't know at the time, but have read here is the valve guides in a marine application should be a little bigger too. I simply asked for a valve job and I expect it was done to automotive clearances.

Compression after break in was 7 cylinders at 125 and 1 at 123.

Now
1-125 3-125
3-130 4-125
5-125 6-115
7-130 8-120

I did this cold and generally speaking I'm looking for differences at current check, not so much a 10 psi difference from last check to this one, however #6 has me concerned due to what I found.

Last check 3 & 4 were 135, 6 & 8 were 128 Metal shaving found near 6 & 8 not that it means anything.

On a side note all of the spark plug washers are stuck to the heads. More annoying than anything else although it would be nice to get them out. Any suggestions? Small sharp hook on a hanger wire?

Thanks for the help guys

 

[dankdave79]

I'd pull the whole thing apart before it becomes a hand grenade

 

[gn7]

In wouldn't be to concerned with the #6. Was this thing running OK when you took it off the water. You say its magnetic?

Stock iron heads? Looks like Ti retainers. Guessing a roller cam.

See if you can get a look at ALL the valve seals.

As for the plug washers....are you SURE they take a washer plug and not tapered seat?



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[gn7]

I'd pull the whole thing apart before it becomes a hand grenade

Boy, thats a quick judgement!)eek)



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[74Bonneville]

In wouldn't be to concerned with the #6. Was this thing running OK when you took it off the water. You say its magnetic?

Stock iron heads? Looks like Ti retainers. Guessing a roller cam.

See if you can get a look at ALL the valve seals.

As for the plug washers....are you SURE they take a washer plug and not tapered seat?

Running great last weekend. 94 mph at 6000 or 6100 rpm, quick look at tach. At one point I thought I heard a tick, this is why I was going to check valve lash.

Yes magnetic

Yes iron heads, no, flat tappet cam

Hmmmm good question, I don't know. Bought plugs from Teague and asked for recommendation on my motor. I bet they use taper, why else would they be stuck.

I can pull the valve springs and take a look at everything from outside. I push a heavy rope inside of spark plug hole then ease the piston up so valves don't fall in. Read this somewhere when I had to add inner spring after cam break in.

Am I looking at the valve seals to see if one looks different from the others?

Thanks again

I did pull oil filter and poured oil out, nothing unusual. Although if there were something unusual its probably inside filter.

 

[74Bonneville]

I'd pull the whole thing apart before it becomes a hand grenade

I thought all of us high performance guys drive hand grenades every time we start the engine )eek)

I'm going to find this before I run it again, but it's upper not lower. No reason to pull bottom end apart just yet.

 

[gn7]

If you can pull the springs, all the better. You need to see if they are positve type seal like this, and if all the metal is still on all of them. Some Ti retainers have a deep keeper hole or "tube" to strengthen them. Cranes are the worse for this. With stock length valves and enough lift it puts the retainer into the seal. Or its possible one just failed.

As for the plugs, when you get a washer out, it will probably tell you, plus you can look in the spark plug hole and see if there is a tapered seat. But I think the washer will alert you.

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[ol guy]

Did you flip the valve covers to see if you are eating a deflector and what valve covers are you running?

 

[74Bonneville]

Did you flip the valve covers to see if you are eating a deflector and what valve covers are you running?

I did look inside the valve covers. Old school Moroso chrome covers, no damage inside.

 

[lbhsbz]

Peek through the pushrod holes at the tops of the lifters....see in there's any chunks missing.

 

[nOv1c3]

Cut the filter open and see whats in it Those are some big chunks , I know its a big pain but i would pull the pan and intake

 

[Bass Lake Boz]

I'd pull the whole thing apart before it becomes a hand grenade

:iagree: I totally agree.
1st you’ll find all the damaged parts.
2nd You’ll be able to remove all the debris from the engine. There will be more trash in the pan.)eek)
Do you really want to do this twice?? :no:
My Opinion..
Good Luck
Please let us know how it is going.

 

[gn7]

:iagree: I totally agree.
1st you’ll find all the damaged parts.
2nd You’ll be able to remove all the debris from the engine. There will be more trash in the pan.)eek)
Do you really want to do this twice?? :no:
My Opinion..
Good Luck
Please let us know how it is going.

First I think I would find out where it came from and how much was torn up. If thats only one seal, I would say he has 99% of it.



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[Bass Lake Boz]

First I think I would find out where it came from and how much was torn up. If thats only one seal, I would say he has 99% of it.

GN7 you may be correct.
I really don’t want to tell you all this.
When I was working as a mechanic several years ago a man towed in his Ford van that had quit running.
The engine had locked up . The oil pump had sucked up a piece of nylon from the timing gear and it had logged in the gears of the pump. The oil pump drive shaft had twisted like a rod iron fence before it broke but the distributor gear roll pin never sheared like it should have. The engine ran until the crank seized. Thinking someone replaced the pin with a needle bearing or something I examined it & found it to be the factory pin.
There is NO WAY I would believe you or anybody else that told me this had or could happen.
Especially knowing how quick some people are to pounce on someone. What would be my motive to get in front of the firing squad if I didn’t have too.
After first hand witnessing this I will not take any chances with debris in the pan because I was too cheap to pay for a gasket set.
I had saved that shaft for years to show people what was possible.

 

[gn7]

GN7 you may be correct.
I really don’t want to tell you all this.
When I was working as a mechanic several years ago a man towed in his Ford van that had quit running.
The engine had locked up . The oil pump had sucked up a piece of nylon from the timing gear and it had logged in the gears of the pump. The oil pump drive shaft had twisted like a rod iron fence before it broke but the distributor gear roll pin never sheared like it should have. The engine ran until the crank seized. Thinking someone replaced the pin with a needle bearing or something I examined it & found it to be the factory pin.
There is NO WAY I would believe you or anybody else that told me this had or could happen.
Especially knowing how quick some people are to pounce on someone. What would be my motive to get in front of the firing squad if I didn’t have too.
After first hand witnessing this I will not take any chances with debris in the pan because I was too cheap to pay for a gasket set.
I had saved that shaft for years to show people what was possible.

so did you ever ask yourself how a piece of nylon big got past the screen in the pickup. I had the same thing happen in shop truck with about 15,000 on it and it was a piece of a umbrella valve seal that had harden and busted off. How does that get past the pickup screen????? MMMMmmmmm

Seen a spiral lock from a piston that came out. It was straightened out pretty good by the time it made it into the pan down the side of the piston. Worked its way thru the screen in a aftermarket pickup and locked up the pump. Put that was a fairly long piece of fairly straight wire.

How do you get a chunk of nylon or valve seal past a pickup screen? I KNOW it happens, but HOW????



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[Bass Lake Boz]

so did you ever ask yourself how a piece of nylon big got past the screen in the pickup. I had the same thing happen in shop truck with about 15,000 on it and it was a piece of a umbrella valve seal that had harden and busted off. How does that get past the pickup screen????? MMMMmmmmm

Seen a spiral lock from a piston that came out. It was straightened out pretty good by the time it made it into the pan down the side of the piston. Worked its way thru the screen in a aftermarket pickup and locked up the pump. Put that was a fairly long piece of fairly straight wire.

How do you get a chunk of nylon or valve seal past a pickup screen? I KNOW it happens, but HOW????

Vacuum. There was a lot of nylon around the pickup and at some point was subjected to enough vacuum to suck a small piece through the screen.

 

[gn7]

Vacuum. There was a lot of nylon around the pickup and at some point was subjected to enough vacuum to suck a small piece through the screen.

You can't put a piece of nylon thru that screen big enough to jam a pump. Take a hard look at that screen sometime. Thats the reason its there. I piece of wire? Yes. A junk of nylon big enough to stop the pump, thru that screen? No way!
It happened because of one of Ford's "better ideas".

Also, you can stop a Ford gerotor pump with a piece of finger nail and twist the hex drive. A GM gear pump is much harder to lockup. There is clearance between the gear root on the GM pump, and virtually no where to hide a piece of nat shit on Ford Gerotor pump.



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[gn7]

Heres what happens, and you can thank some genius at Ford for this one. I have never torn apart a stock GM pickup to see if they are the same, but they might be.

In Ford;s infinite wisdom, they decided to build their pickups with a "bypass" in the screen. In the center of the screen there is a hole in it. The hole is sealed off by tin sheetmetal shield over the screen. If the screen should become blocked for any reason, debri, sludge, whatever, the screen oil cans backwards and the tin cover no longer seals off the hole, allowing anything that can fit thru the hole to go to the pump. great idea Ford!!! Because 99% of time that screen flexes backwards, something big enough to lockup that freek'n gerotor pump and shear off the hex shaft will end up doing just that.
Even if the thing goes into bypass because of sludge, and you run a super detergent oil or engine flush thru the thing and the screen is completely clear, once the screen oil cans, its a done deal, it will not pop back. You pickup will now pass a small bird FOREVER!
Now you know. BTW, the crap in this pickup is most likely umbrella valce seal. It is reasonable for more blown Ford engines and sheared off hex drives than everthing else combined.




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[Bass Lake Boz]

You can't put a piece of nylon thru that screen big enough to jam a pump. Take a hard look at that screen sometime. Thats the reason its there. I piece of wire? Yes. A junk of nylon big enough to stop the pump, thru that screen? No way!
It happened because of one of Ford's "better ideas".

Also, you can stop a Ford gerotor pump with a piece of finger nail and twist the hex drive. A GM gear pump is much harder to lockup. There is clearance between the gear root on the GM pump, and virtually no where to hide a piece of nat shit on Ford Gerotor pump.

This is exactly what I thought would happen.
Obviously you are too smart to understand the true strength of vacuum and are very quick to dismiss the possibility of a piece of Nylon to be sucked through a pickup screen.
You might want to fathom the possibly.
As for the Hex shaft to be twisted and break? I have no idea what the fudge happened there.
I really didn’t expect any body to believe it either. So don’t believe it. I really don’t care.
I didn’t want to say anything in the first place. This is one of the reasons I would personally decide to go through the whole motor.
GN7,
After I posted this I have just seen your last post.

 

[gn7]

This is exactly what I thought would happen.
Obviously you are too smart to understand the true strength of vacuum and are very quick to dismiss the possibility of a piece of Nylon to be sucked through a pickup screen.
You might want to fathom the possibly.
As for the Hex shaft to be twisted and break? I have no idea what the fudge happened there.
I really didn’t expect any body to believe it either. So don’t believe it. I really don’t care.
I didn’t want to say anything in the first place. This is one of the reasons I would personally decide to go through the whole motor.
GN7,
After I posted this I have just seen your last post.

So do you think the nylon was pulled thru the tiny ass screen holes still?



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