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can meth injection eliminate the need for intercooler? how much meth is used? how much boost can you run? how do you tune it?
 

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:))THumbsUp thats wat i did, no i.c. and a.i.s. 3 nozzle injection with a nice 5qt tank that should last the day.less than 13inches of charge pipe between my turbo comp outlet and the hat inlet, throttle response is nasty on the trailer, cant wait for the water to warm up:grin:
 

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Meth

Where do you inject the meth on an old Race Arrow, Rajay, draw thorough, twin holley, i/c setup. Running 15lbs boost with 100ll fuel? Is it best to buy the the entire kit or custom build to your needs? Thanks for any information or direction. Bill T.
 

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Where do you inject the meth on an old Race Arrow, Rajay, draw thorough, twin holley, i/c setup. Running 15lbs boost with 100ll fuel? Is it best to buy the the entire kit or custom build to your needs? Thanks for any information or direction. Bill T.
Like I said, best to let Rodney setup your system. There are to many variables & setups out there for a one size fits all system.
The Best Water injection system and water methanol injection systems at AlcoholInjectionSystems.com
 

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Just my 2 cents on the subject and I am sure(think?) that Hass and Impatient will back me up on this. Nobody has mentioned water in this thread at all. Not sure if it is assumed or if someone is actually thinking 100% pure meth injection. Although Rodney is damn good at what he does and sells, and one hell of a nice guy, he isn't a magician.

His systems, and everybody elses are based on a 50-50 or less mix of meth/water. Two things happen when you go passed this. One, the mix can become flammable. Its still pretty damn safe at 55-45, maybe even 40-60. But really, that is the point. As the mix gets richer, it gets harder and harder to jet the carb. Every drop of meth enrichs the total A/F ratio. A little enrichment under boost is good, a lot, not so good. If you attempt to jet for pure meth you will have to lean do the un-injected mixture to be in the ball park when it arrives. The amount you inject will impact the A/F. If you inject a tiny amount, you don't jack the overall too badly, but you miss out on the cooling. If you dump it in there, your A/F goes to hell. You're much better off in the long run using a 50-50 than straight meth because you can flow more without screwing up the A/F.

If your running a closed looped EFI, that a different story.

See Hass, there is some benefit to EFI. Like 100% pure meth injection under extreme boost! I'll take that over an IC or a 50-50 anyday.
Damn, 100% meth and a knob. Now thats an unbeatable combo. Peanut port heads and stock hyd cam here I come!:)eh:)



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Just my 2 cents on the subject and I am sure(think?) that Hass and Impatient will back me up on this. Nobody has mentioned water in this thread at all. Not sure if it is assumed or if someone is actually thinking 100% pure meth injection. Although Rodney is damn good at what he does and sells, and one hell of a nice guy, he isn't a magician.

His systems, and everybody elses are based on a 50-50 or less mix of meth/water. Two things happen when you go passed this. One, the mix can become flammable. Its still pretty damn safe at 55-45, maybe even 40-60. But really, that is the point. As the mix gets richer, it gets harder and harder to jet the carb. Every drop of meth enrichs the total A/F ratio. A little enrichment under boost is good, a lot, not so good. If you attempt to jet for pure meth you will have to lean do the un-injected mixture to be in the ball park when it arrives. The amount you inject will impact the A/F. If you inject a tiny amount, you don't jack the overall too badly, but you miss out on the cooling. If you dump it in there, your A/F goes to hell. You're much better off in the long run using a 50-50 than straight meth because you can flow more without screwing up the A/F.

If your running a closed looped EFI, that a different story.

See Hass, there is some benefit to EFI. Like 100% pure meth injection under extreme boost! I'll take that over an IC or a 50-50 anyday.
Damn, 100% meth and a knob. Now thats an unbeatable combo. Peanut port heads and stock hyd cam here I come!:)eh:)
X 2 ! thats wht they told me . i run one on my truck . having problems now. when the pump is off it still draws water & causes a bad idle. way cheaper then racing gas!!!!!
 

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Just my 2 cents on the subject and I am sure(think?) that Hass and Impatient will back me up on this. Nobody has mentioned water in this thread at all. Not sure if it is assumed or if someone is actually thinking 100% pure meth injection. Although Rodney is damn good at what he does and sells, and one hell of a nice guy, he isn't a magician.

His systems, and everybody elses are based on a 50-50 or less mix of meth/water. Two things happen when you go passed this. One, the mix can become flammable. Its still pretty damn safe at 55-45, maybe even 40-60. But really, that is the point. As the mix gets richer, it gets harder and harder to jet the carb. Every drop of meth enrichs the total A/F ratio. A little enrichment under boost is good, a lot, not so good. If you attempt to jet for pure meth you will have to lean do the un-injected mixture to be in the ball park when it arrives. The amount you inject will impact the A/F. If you inject a tiny amount, you don't jack the overall too badly, but you miss out on the cooling. If you dump it in there, your A/F goes to hell. You're much better off in the long run using a 50-50 than straight meth because you can flow more without screwing up the A/F.

If your running a closed looped EFI, that a different story.

See Hass, there is some benefit to EFI. Like 100% pure meth injection under extreme boost! I'll take that over an IC or a 50-50 anyday.
Damn, 100% meth and a knob. Now thats an unbeatable combo. Peanut port heads and stock hyd cam here I come!:)eh:)
Exactly correct. The mix is the way to do it. Actually -20 windshield washer fluid. It can be bought anywhere and is cheap.
 

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Last season I ran an AIS water/meth kit on my 14-71/565 combo, I was able to run 10lbs of boost and a 200 shot of nitrous all on 92 oct. pump gas from the local chevron. It was a dual nozzle set up that I installed in the carb adapter plate with a 3 gallon tank, I would use just over 2 1/2 gallons to 28 gallons of gas. I bought a drum of vp methanol and mixed my own 50/50, it worked awesome and everything in the engine looks great!!
 

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Alkycontrol is one of the few systems rated for 100% meth use. One downfall of meth is yes, its flammable, and if you have a BOV, it WILL mist out it when it opens. Not such a problem with jets, as many won't just chop the throttle anyway, so they don't run BOVs.

One problem with water is, you can only inject so much (on a particular combination). In theory (negating any distribution problems) you can just keep adding meth (keeping your overall fueling in check with your carb/EFI).

Also, now a lot of people use solenoids instead of check valves, as the pump can take a second or 2 to bleed off its built up pressure (over-running a check valve). Not really a huge problem unless you are running pre-turbo injection.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
so if you place the BOV between the turbo and the IC, you could inject the meth downstream of the BOV to keep from blowing meth mist when the BOV opens?
 

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so if you place the BOV between the turbo and the IC, you could inject the meth downstream of the BOV to keep from blowing meth mist when the BOV opens?
Inject your alcohol after the intercooler. If you chemically cool your air before the intercooler, you've defeated the purpose. Without a high difference in temperature, the intercooler is just an unnecessary pressure drop (or possibly an interheater!)
 

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I was contemplating the possibilities of taking E85 fuel and adding 20% methanol to it.
That would decrease the % of gasoline,
Increase the latent heat cooling,
Decrease the fuel economy of E85 some but still way beyond straight Methanol.
It would require more injector duty cycle than E85 but not as much as what straight methanol would.
I can calculate out the proper fuel energy constant to put in the FAST XFI program.

As it is the fuel energy constant for gasoline is 1, E85 is .65, and Methanol is .45

It would be less corrosive of a mix than straight methanol.
From what I've read all those fuels would be compatible.

EFI gives you great multi fuel opportunities. :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
enrichment furl

Mark, I'm glad you mentioned this. I was thinking of trying to figure out how to add enrichment fuel as the boost goes up in an amount so that the EFI would still have to maintain the proper mixture. like a second set of injectors at the TB so that the fuel they provide isn't enough to quite satisfy the mixture needs but enough to keep it in the realm where the regular injectors would be able to compensate. sort of like a dry NOS system where the EFI adjusts as the NOS comes on. is this a valid idea here? also, am I going to be able to use my GM EFI or must I go to something else like megasquirt or FAST ?
 

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I was contemplating the possibilities of taking E85 fuel and adding 20% methanol to it.
That would decrease the % of gasoline,
Increase the latent heat cooling,
Decrease the fuel economy of E85 some but still way beyond straight Methanol.
It would require more injector duty cycle than E85 but not as much as what straight methanol would.
I can calculate out the proper fuel energy constant to put in the FAST XFI program.

As it is the fuel energy constant for gasoline is 1, E85 is .65, and Methanol is .45

It would be less corrosive of a mix than straight methanol.
From what I've read all those fuels would be compatible.

EFI gives you great multi fuel opportunities. :thumb:

Mark, i hope u get it figured out as when i finish building the 525, its going in the jet and im buying a fast system for it and shedding the innercooler . Going to put the 400 back in my other boat. So get ready for your new tuning project. Before i buy the fast system, i will check with you to make sure you will be willing to help me get it tuned. Adding methanol sounds like a viable deal to really safen up the tuneup without the cooler. Hope it works out well.
 
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