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Discussion Starter #1

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steelcomp was here
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... but nothing about her information is in question and she's a thesis away form her doctorate. Good grief. She even admitted not being a doctor.

But I guess this is "thread-worthy"....??? :indifferent0001:

You guys really need a life.
 

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... but nothing about her information is in question and she's a thesis away form her doctorate. Good grief. She even admitted not being a doctor.

But I guess this is "thread-worthy"....??? :indifferent0001:

You guys really need a life.
Not true. It's thread worthy because it's news worthy, and I have life thank you very much! Didn't know you were the editor in chief around here deciding what is worthy of my time.
Apparently, her alliance and experience's are being questioned by many. She only confirmed she wasn't a PHD after she was questioned about that. If someone is willing to lie or deceive others about who or what they are, that calls into question their opinion about everything else they're advising on in my book. It shows an agenda. If you are pushing an agenda then how factual are your findings or opinions?
Elizabeth O'Bagy, Syria Researcher Cited By Kerry And McCain In Hearings, Fired For Ph.D Claim
 

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steelcomp was here
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LOL..."newswowrthy"?? It's gossip. Her credibility is no more "questionable" than anyone questioning her, and there isn't a person involved who doesn't have an agenda. My guess is she's being made a scapegoat.



Not true. It's thread worthy because it's news worthy, and I have life thank you very much! Didn't know you were the editor in chief around here deciding what is worthy of my time.
Apparently, her alliance and experience's are being questioned by many. She only confirmed she wasn't a PHD after she was questioned about that. If someone is willing to lie or deceive others about who or what they are, that calls into question their opinion about everything else they're advising on in my book. It shows an agenda. If you are pushing an agenda then how factual are your findings or opinions?
Elizabeth O'Bagy, Syria Researcher Cited By Kerry And McCain In Hearings, Fired For Ph.D Claim
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
... 1. but nothing about her information is in question and she's 2. a thesis away form her doctorate. 3. Good grief. She even admitted not being a doctor.

But I guess this is "thread-worthy"....??? :indifferent0001:

You guys really need a life.
1. Her information is in question; as I mentioned in a previous post she works for various individuals on a contract basis that she benefits from so she is highly compromised and biased. Biased and compromised individuals are known to steer people and opinion in the directions that benefits them.

2. A THESIS is for your Masters degree a DISSERTATION is for your Doctorate. and you know how I know this.

3. She told her employer that she had submitted her dissertation and was waiting for her graduate committee to sign off....seemed to suggest that she defended the dissertation....anyway no Phd is forthcoming cuz nothing was submitted, so she lied to get the job.

4. As someone with similar training (mine is more bio and psy) no way a 27 year old is an expert in that culture without having been raised in it or performed serious in-depth ethnographic investigation via direct experience.

Fox news apologized for letting her on the air and not disclosing her business relationships that benefit from the term "MODERATE"

It is thread worthy....you just didn't know how strings were being yanked....I caught it, seems like others caught it, she was exposed, then fired.


Cheers
 

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LOL..."newswowrthy"?? It's gossip. Her credibility is no more "questionable" than anyone questioning her, and there isn't a person involved who doesn't have an agenda. My guess is she's being made a scapegoat.
Now there's some pretzel logic, openly lying makes her credibility "questionable".

You sound just like the leftist's destroying our country.
 

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Just Me
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1. Her information is in question; as I mentioned in a previous post she works for various individuals on a contract basis that she benefits from so she is highly compromised and biased. Biased and compromised individuals are known to steer people and opinion in the directions that benefits them.

2. A THESIS is for your Masters degree a DISSERTATION is for your Doctorate. and you know how I know this.

3. She told her employer that she had submitted her dissertation and was waiting for her graduate committee to sign off....seemed to suggest that she defended the dissertation....anyway no Phd is forthcoming cuz nothing was submitted, so she lied to get the job.

4. As someone with similar training (mine is more bio and psy) no way a 27 year old is an expert in that culture without having been raised in it or performed serious in-depth ethnographic investigation via direct experience.

Fox news apologized for letting her on the air and not disclosing her business relationships that benefit from the term "MODERATE"

It is thread worthy....you just didn't know how strings were being yanked....I caught it, seems like others caught it, she was exposed, then fired.


Cheers

Surely a worldly scholar such as yourself knows that the difference between a thesis and a dissertation is primarily semantics. In the UK the titles on the papers are reversed; a thesis is done for a PHD and a dissertation for a Masters. Thesis are done for more than just the Masters program in the US. And it depends on what the University wants to call the paper. You could be required to do a thesis for an honors program at the Bachelors level. But that is not the issue at hand.

This person was hired originally as an intern. Did she falsify her internship papers saying she had completed her degree? Of course not. The originally posted link states they elevated her position when they needed a fluent Arabic speaker and that at that time they knew she was working toward her degree. That same article said her degree is pending following her submission of her thesis. So she has submitted it, it just hasn't been finalized (which usually is a matter of routine and possibly a few edits as you should know). As you should also know, if she is a fluent Arabic linguist and was hired by rebel factions, she probably has ties to the area. So she very well could be an expert on the area in question. Based on the information that has been presented here, there is no evidence that she isn't. Other than her opinion was used in a political forum so she now must be nit picked to death. For all we know her dissertation could have been on that very region and the events that were leading up to the current situation. If so, she is probably more of an expert than some who claim to know what's going on over there.

It's newsworthy because it is politics as usual today. If someone says something you disagree with, don't bother disputing the facts, trash their reputation and the public will think the facts presented are somehow false as a result. How hard should it be for the government to determine if she is correct in her assertion that there are distinct territories where moderate rebels control and others where extremest rebels control? Especially if as she says, they mark their respective territories with flags?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Surely a worldly scholar such as yourself knows that the difference between a thesis and a dissertation is primarily semantics. In the UK the titles on the papers are reversed; a thesis is done for a PHD and a dissertation for a Masters. Thesis are done for more than just the Masters program in the US. And it depends on what the University wants to call the paper. You could be required to do a thesis for an honors program at the Bachelors level. But that is not the issue at hand.

This person was hired originally as an intern. Did she falsify her internship papers saying she had completed her degree? Of course not. The originally posted link states they elevated her position when they needed a fluent Arabic speaker and that at that time they knew she was working toward her degree. That same article said her degree is pending following her submission of her thesis. So she has submitted it, it just hasn't been finalized (which usually is a matter of routine and possibly a few edits as you should know). As you should also know, if she is a fluent Arabic linguist and was hired by rebel factions, she probably has ties to the area. So she very well could be an expert on the area in question. Based on the information that has been presented here, there is no evidence that she isn't. Other than her opinion was used in a political forum so she now must be nit picked to death. For all we know her dissertation could have been on that very region and the events that were leading up to the current situation. If so, she is probably more of an expert than some who claim to know what's going on over there.

It's newsworthy because it is politics as usual today. If someone says something you disagree with, don't bother disputing the facts, trash their reputation and the public will think the facts presented are somehow false as a result. How hard should it be for the government to determine if she is correct in her assertion that there are distinct territories where moderate rebels control and others where extremest rebels control? Especially if as she says, they mark their respective territories with flags?
So first off before a proper response....you disagree with the types of tactics that you employ daily? (see bold). In addition, so you would support government officials i.e Kerry and McCain cherry picking under qualified personnel under contract with foreign employers who benefit from "moderate" terminology so that they could site a source to bolster their opinion for war?
 

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Just Me
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So first off before a proper response....you disagree with the types of tactics that you employ daily? (see bold). In addition, so you would support government officials i.e Kerry and McCain cherry picking under qualified personnel under contract with foreign employers who benefit from "moderate" terminology so that they could site a source to bolster their opinion for war?
And you are mistaken, I usually cite the contrary facts first. When that doesn't work I then try to put things in terms that the right wing or left wing sheeple who aren't interested in facts can hopefully grasp.

Now are you saying she is under qualified? The institute confirmed her analysis is rock solid, are you saying they are influenced by the war mongers or the Syrian rebels? They also confirmed that she has been on the ground and there in person and regularly reported on who her contacts were. So she was there and talking to people that are involved in the situation. How does that make her under qualified? Also are you saying McCain or Kerry picked her because they knew she was not really a PhD? Or did they pick her because what she said supported what they believed (or wanted to believe)?

She didn't hide her association and it had been mentioned in the past. If someone wanted to use her work as support for their position, it is up to them to exercise due diligence in vetting her credentials and affiliations if they can be detrimental to the position taken.

I knew a lot of analysts without a college degree that were damn good in their areas on concern. Not having a PhD doesn't make her opinion any less viable. Misleading people about her credentials does raise issues as to her credibility and if her sources and facts should be taken at face value. But, do you take an analyst's opinion at face value without checking facts and verifying for yourself? I certainly don't. And I doubt the institute she worked for did either.

This is just a blame shift game to take everyone's eye off the fact that Zero wanted to start a war and didn't have the nuts to follow through with his threats. The fact that he didn't have congressional approval is beside the point. He chickened out and didn't follow through with his threats. Heck he was punked by a dictator's 11 yo son. Of course they need something to take the attention away from him.
 

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Red Blooded American
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Is it just me or are a couple of the occasional posters coming in here for the sole purpose of engaging in the battle of wits, rather than fact-finding? I find it rather annoying to here their self-absorbed wordsmithing or well-read experience blasted out in post after post as if they are the only ones who understand such things?

I'm here to share opinions and seek truth. I get a lot of insights from many but the bickering does nothing but detract from the content and context of these discussions.
 

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I don't know if you guy's read the Huff post article, but apparently there are many people questioning her credentials,

Quote;

"Some experts have questioned O’Bagy’s findings on Syria. Charles Lister, a top Middle East analyst at IHS Jane’s Terrorism & Insurgency Centre, tweeted his critique of the op-ed and argued that Syria is too complex to be viewed as “one single conflict.”

And while Kerry spoke before Congress about O'Bagy's "enormous" experience covering Syria, Janine Di Giovanni, a veteran foreign correspondent who has reported on the ground there, suggested that the young researcher had “exaggerated wildly her experience inside Syria.”

Di Giovanni told HuffPost that she's sure O'Bagy has read on Syrian history and the Assad family and that she's had some on-the-ground experience, "but not what she led Kerry and others to believe."

"Those of us who work in Syria, as reporters or researchers, are a very small group of people,” di Giovanni said. “We’re all incredibly cautious. We’re all protective of each other. It’s a very difficult job and difficult war to work in. It’s not a war to cut your teeth in. A lot of people were quite shocked when a 26-year-old Ph.D, so-called Syria expert who appeared to have never worked in the region, and whom no one had heard of, appeared on CNN and other networks as a Syrian expert.”


HuffPost:


I guess she's not so "rock solid" after all. I agree that if you're going to quote her, you had better know for sure she's legit. Apparently both Kerry and McCain just found a voice that echoed their opinion, truth be damned!
 

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Marine Organism
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Is it just me or are a couple of the occasional posters coming in here for the sole purpose of engaging in the battle of wits, rather than fact-finding? I find it rather annoying to here their self-absorbed wordsmithing or well-read experience blasted out in post after post as if they are the only ones who understand such things?

I'm here to share opinions and seek truth. I get a lot of insights from many but the bickering does nothing but detract from the content and context of these discussions.
It does. That is why I have one on ignore and the other I ignore most of the time. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
1). Surely a worldly scholar such as yourself knows that the difference between a thesis and a dissertation is primarily semantics. In the UK the titles on the papers are reversed; a thesis is done for a PHD and a dissertation for a Masters. Thesis are done for more than just the Masters program in the US. And it depends on what the University wants to call the paper. You could be required to do a thesis for an honors program at the Bachelors level. But that is not the issue at hand.

2). This person was hired originally as an intern. Did she falsify her internship papers saying she had completed her degree? Of course not. The originally posted link states they elevated her position when they needed a fluent Arabic speaker and that at that time they knew she was working toward her degree. That same article said her degree is pending following her submission of her thesis. So she has submitted it, it just hasn't been finalized (which usually is a matter of routine and possibly a few edits as you should know). As you should also know, 3).if she is a fluent Arabic linguist and was hired by rebel factions, she probably has ties to the area. So she very well could be an expert on the area in question. Based on the information that has been presented here, there is no evidence that she isn't. Other than her opinion was used in a political forum so she now must be nit picked to death. For all we know her dissertation could have been on that very region and the events that were leading up to the current situation. If so, she is probably more of an expert than some who claim to know what's going on over there.

It's newsworthy because it is politics as usual today. If someone says something you disagree with, don't bother disputing the facts, trash their reputation and the public will think the facts presented are somehow false as a result. 4). How hard should it be for the government to determine if she is correct in her assertion that there are distinct territories where moderate rebels control and others where extremest rebels control? Especially if as she says, they mark their respective territories with flags?
1). She attended George Town University, nothing in another country so it is thesis and then dissertation. So its not semantics!

zero points for SNOC

2). "Georgetown University’s office of communications, meanwhile, said in a statement that “Georgetown University confirms that Elizabeth O’Bagy received a Bachelor of Arts degree in 2009 and a Master of Arts degree in 2013. At this time she is not a registered student.”
"According to Kagan, O’Bagy in May led her to believe she had successfully defended her dissertation when she had actually failed her defense."

source politico: WSJ op-ed writer Elizabeth O

This means that her own hand picked graduate committee found her work lacking and unacceptable....you don't have typos prior to your in person multiple hour cross examination defense or they wont schedule it, typos are for high school.

zero points for SNOC

3). "she received a Critical Language Scholarship to study Arabic in Tangier Morocco and studied Arabic at the American University in Cairo.” Her only tie to the area was to study the language in Morocco on exhange and at an American school in Egypt to study Arabic history. She then went on some field exercises with locals, this does not make her an expert in anything.
.
zero points for SNOC

4). Very difficult when dumbasses like Kerry and McCain don't confirm the legitimacy of sources with multiple cross checking policies, both from the analyst and the content of the analysts claims. Lots of lives at risk, not sure why two esteemed politicians wouldn't want the best intel.....which usually is an amalgamation of multiple sources. Citing a single source, O'Bagy, is the tip off that everyone caught onto. The fix was in, thank God it failed.

zero points for SNOC


YOU FAILED....please try again on another topic

Cheers
 

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Just Me
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1). She attended George Town University, nothing in another country so it is thesis and then dissertation. So its not semantics!

zero points for SNOC

2). "Georgetown University’s office of communications, meanwhile, said in a statement that “Georgetown University confirms that Elizabeth O’Bagy received a Bachelor of Arts degree in 2009 and a Master of Arts degree in 2013. At this time she is not a registered student.”
"According to Kagan, O’Bagy in May led her to believe she had successfully defended her dissertation when she had actually failed her defense."

source politico: WSJ op-ed writer Elizabeth O

This means that her own hand picked graduate committee found her work lacking and unacceptable....you don't have typos prior to your in person multiple hour cross examination defense or they wont schedule it, typos are for high school.

zero points for SNOC

3). "she received a Critical Language Scholarship to study Arabic in Tangier Morocco and studied Arabic at the American University in Cairo.” Her only tie to the area was to study the language in Morocco on exhange and at an American school in Egypt to study Arabic history. She then went on some field exercises with locals, this does not make her an expert in anything.
.
zero points for SNOC

4). Very difficult when dumbasses like Kerry and McCain don't confirm the legitimacy of sources with multiple cross checking policies, both from the analyst and the content of the analysts claims. Lots of lives at risk, not sure why two esteemed politicians wouldn't want the best intel.....which usually is an amalgamation of multiple sources. Citing a single source, O'Bagy, is the tip off that everyone caught onto. The fix was in, thank God it failed.

zero points for SNOC


YOU FAILED....please try again on another topic

Cheers
I wasn't aware she had even defended an offered dissertation yet. I was under the impression it was alledgedlly turned in but not defended, which meant it very well could have been in the editing stage had her committee found errors. But, you're saying she not only submitted it, but failed to defend it and it was therefore rejected? And that means she does what? Edit her position and resubmit? Or start over? Which do you think she would do? duh! But, the stories are all over the place in regards to if she was even a doctoral student, had she submitted, hadn't she submitted, so how do we know what really did or didn't take place?

Did her employer know or didn't they know? Clearly they knew her status when she first went to work there. So one would presume they had contact with the University since she started as an intern. They put her on the payroll knowing she didn't have the degree. Now they are just trying to Cover their Asses. So again, who knows the real truth. The question is why is this such a big concern when her position didn't sway votes? Is someone afraid she might be right? Is someone afraid she might know something? Or is it just another distraction? If so from what?

So who was her hand picked doctoral committee? Did they find her work lacking or too political for the current flavor of white house politics? Was her not being a student at Georgetown a before the fact or an after the fact occurrence? Has anyone seen a copy of her dissertation? Anyone know who was on her Committee? Any notes on her FB that she had it turned in or had defended it?

Her dissertation was allegedly on female militants. If she did the research and had credible sources for such a dissertation, she most certainly could have had the resources and knowledge to be a subject matter expert at the time of her dissertation. And that would have been this year. Go figure. Who would know if her research and sources were good to go? Her research was vetted and accepted by her employer. Her sources were confirmed to and accepted by her employer. Her opinions were also accepted by her employer. And all of them were confirmed to be valid by her employer. So, are you saying her employer this very well respected analysis organization is lacking in analytically skills?

What is the lowest level they offer for critical language scholarships? (advanced beginning which means she had to have some Arabic language familiarity at a minimum) Where did she get that from? There is so much more to this than we may ever hear truthfully. I don't necessarily agree with her position that the rebels were moderates (haven't met very many moderate Muslims in my life), but I won't say it isn't possible. I haven't seen her analysis data or the supporting documents. But, she sure stirred someone into a frenzy with her view point. What is the real story behind this?

BTW typos are for any level unless you are still at the high school level yourself. :wink2:

I'm not defending her if she lied about her credentials. I'm questioning if she lied, and if so how do we know? After the fact there are a lot of people saying a lot of things. Who knows what is true.
 
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