Performance Boats Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
well i finally have something to offer,some info ive been the recipent of all you guys helping me with tech info this might help you
i spin wrenches for a larger construction co in north east actually im in charge of the fleet my guess is 200 pc,inventory worth several millions,i have a free hand and as long i produce im o.k. in my never ending search to save operating capitol, and reduce consuming fossil fuels , ive researched many avenues ,ive tried a new aux filter, fluids
either oil/fuel/hyd,and everybody including my lubricant vendor told me not to do it.of corse anthing that will reduce my lube consumptiom means ill buy less products from them . o.k.i have tried this thing,it eliminates apx 5 oil changes ,,,,but stay tuned,this thing works. i use fluid analyis,particle counts, for those of us not familure with this it is a measurement of particulate in fluids ,i.e. as we wear out our 50.000$ motors we generate microscopic particals thats why we change fluids .particales breed more particals,well this little aux filter plumbs to a filter line or hose to cooler, i have positive proof thru my analasys that thing works. check it out less particulate,removes 99.98% of water contaminaition,cleaner ,oil than in previous samples. and heres the good thing as if these benifits arent good enough,we never changed the oil. now this is on a excavator,granted and it only cost me a grand to do the install,and i have a buy back gaurentee from this place,im going to pilot program these ill keep posting my results, this is no shit im running this on my blower motor comming toghter as we post this yes he has offerd to give it to for cost cuzz he knows only thing standing between him and a 100.000 $ sale is me i would not buy if this didnt work i would not use it any how,if any one of us out there needs more info ,[email protected] or post it on the forms i love reading this and finding better ways to do wy favorite thing in the world be sides the laides and my 2 kids kicken a,in my beutiful fast boat hope it helps will post my 1st samples when boat running 2 months see ye kev
by the way a bbc filter is way under the grand a 100,gallon filter cost and any one can mount it with simple tools took my staff 1 mech,40 mins later back to boat work
we all now oil never wears out it only gets contaminated so take out the contaminates what you have left is clean oil all the time sounds pretty good to my engine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
Oil never wears out? What about the additive package?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
additive question

:)devilexellent question i asked before my 1st install,will not remove any additives installed in the base stocks,im not the seller of this ,im a also has a consumer ,this vendor also has an additive but its pricey apx 80.00 a gallon by the demos ive seen works too! im not going for that, but the filter impressed me 23888 hrs an a cat c 13 500,h.p.cat excavator engine, cam berrings miked new,crank,rod ,valves, only had minimum wear were suitable for re use. i know! took this guy 2 years to sell me even 1, didnt belive this snake charmer stuff either, just hopping some can benifit from the new technoligy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
My point was, the additive package depletes during your oil change interval....once it's gone, the oil can't do it's job correctly.

As for your testing, you can put the best filter in the world on there and that would keep the oil clean....clean oil is not really what we're after. We're after oil that can adequately protect then engine. I'd be curious to backflush your filter after however many miles you're running the oil for and compare that sample to a sample taken from a conventional filter at a reasonable interval....see what the filter is catching and compare how much crap is captured.

Particulates that are small enough don't matter as long as they stay in suspension.

If your old oil is causing more engine wear but the filter is capturing all those particles, the oil will look perfect....doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Additionally, any reputable oil lab will have data from new test samples showing the starting point as far as the additive package goes, and can use that to compare to the used test sample to gauge remaining useful life. Oil sample testing is more than just looking for contaminants.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
all very good points to ponder

i totally agree! they do highly recomend you add a replenishing raitio of there additive,1/2 oz per gallon of oil,i havent used the additive ,yet but the lab is using a full spectrum analyis ,im at home now and my sampling logs are in my office at work. the oil is also ,according to wear check,and shell sampling labs,suitable for further service,that is based on particulate matter,and the chemical make up of the fortifiers,that each manufacturer add to the oil,according to the suppliers i purchase 1000,s of gallons of different types /viscosities,from they claim its all the same oil enroute,in the boat, at the dispensing points is when the different corps,add the formula to create there chemical make up. this stuff is interesting and im probally the least knoledgable chump on this fourm,but the oil keeps getting cleaner,removes water witch we all suffer from,suitable for further service and tear down show virtually almost nothing as far as wear goes thanks for the response .it keeps me thinking ,also this filter media is changable ,you can sample at the filter supplied port,or:)bulb right out of the dip stick tube,, my best point about the big stuff,is i can now dispatch a tech,with a 12,oz,cartridge for the service,take a sample and bam after a good inspection service complete 1 hr at union heavy equipment wages saves my co a shit load of doe thats for five extensions,after that the fortifiers have began to break down and require a standard service and then we change everything im sure better info is available to those considering sutch a filtering process p.s. im not selling this stuff but been following this and other forms of this type i love it just wanted to get a dissucion going, cause i havent seen this topic and i think it could do some of us some good ,thank
p.s. i do fill out my analasys form and the do request my brand/type,viscosities and other brand specific info for the purporse chemical content,also alum,lead,copper ect,as well as h.2o silicas,all that nasty stuff hurting our beloved marine engines.thanks for response, my brain hurting now ,but this is interesting stuff you have defenitly real good points .,and it was a real joy to post this one, my other stuff made me feel kinda dumb peace out,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
holy cow

whats the basis for the b.s.fill us in ,must know something about it ,im still looking for a reason not to buy a shit load of these things,,,,later,holy cow,, get it, holy cow,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
yea its legit

thats not the one brand ive used, and im not trying to sell anything ,im not part of that company but,a satisfied customer,im using them on my boat,i know that a huge food co just outfitted a large trucking fleet with them 1000,s of rigs, i dont blame anybody for being skeptical,it took this poor bastard 2 years to sell me the first unit,i just thought it would help. a lot of guys have problems with water contaminaition ,im sure other units work well. thats why i never mentioned any brand names. ive raced m/c and had some good sponsers, if the co wants me to market this thing ill need a contract,but look at bypass filtraition systems that are out there,and there working, i am going to contract a few still on a pilot program,for a hyd/oil 2 units per machine,ill keep posting no bull shit results,if i can figure out how ill post actual lab results from shell oil,my lab of choice,ill post good or bad hope it helps,illpost the copy i get back its three pages long with partical, chemical,minerals,ect,ect, later k.s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
The type of filtration you are talking about will significantly prolong the life of the oil, BUT OIL DOES "WEAR OUT"! Or rather, it's properties, independant of the additive package, chabge as a function or time. The molecular weight distribution, viscosity, etc, etc, etc... change over time as a function of heat, shear stress, oxidation, etc... In an engine that spends much of it's life running under very similar conditions, the variables are much more controllable than in an engine that is run under varying temperatures, loads, rpms, etc.. (like in our boats), the only way to be sure that the oil meets the design specifications is to change it at regular intervals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
i think i agree

i think / thought i agreed with your findings,, and im still learning, but the oil is chemicaly suited for continued service,so im on the fence here ,i dont want to buy petrol products then throw them away. when a lab( shell anaislys labs) is telling me the prodctcs are still fine, yes the oil does have a deterioaition point .but that period is in the vicinity of 5 extensions ,at least all the study material i can find on it from indepndant scorces seems to show that its possible,you have some good points .the engines i plan on testing these on cost a hell of a lot more than our beloved boat motors ! and my engine im working on now cost a truck load, and has taken me a year to pay for it ,i will have a aux filtraition system on it . cause of that
and belive me im a little nervous about it, in fact the hydraulic components cost much more to repair than engine failure. 3 differnt labs have partical/chemical functions in there testing critera,i hope some body shows me a different lite, but hell can the 3different labs all be saying the same thing ? and all be incorrect ? i dont know. but in my opinion i dont think so and for the sake of continuing my employment i hope not my purpose for the post was to get this sports best minds to comment, so i can make informed decissions, and i do realize you are no dummy ,so keep me /us in the loop and thanks for the input thats what i was hopping for
also important to note the construction / mining equipment ive been working on for 30 years, does see various rpm,s and demands ,but the cowboys running this stuff are pretty hard on this stuff. they dont pay for repairs like us workin stiffs. and i would tend to belive anything that runs for10/20/hr shifts 6 days a week in mud +dirt is at least as abused as any marine engine i have ever personally seen , and im thinking if it works in the field under those conditions a boat engine would see some differnt duty cycles but w/o sucking all that dirt particles
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,136 Posts
I have a by-pass system on my truck, 7.3 powerstroke. Have had it for years, LOVE IT. For me, I'm a cheap ass. The setup I run cost 300.00, I've quadrupled my oil intervals. 4 gallons of syn. oil and a filter is over a 100.00. I use to drive 300 miles a day, OEM oil service interval is 5k miles, who wants to change their oil every 16 days. The system has more than paid for it self. Not to mention the benefit of filtering down to 6 microns. The premise is a standard spin on filter only filters down to 20-30 microns, well if your oil film on any part of your engine is only 15 microns thick, you have something touching both sides of the engine components. The contaminant is not in suspension of the oil. This is why the is no measurable wear on components at tear down, The life of the equipment is multiplied x ?.
Your oil analyses info will also give you the heads up what is going on in the engine. If you start to see lead or copper, this would indicate possible bearing failure. If your equipment has long lead times for getting parts, you can order the parts, leave the equipment running in the field making money, increase the oil analysis interval to see if the piece is getting critical. This will shorten your down time and increase the production time of the equipment.
The oil does wear out, all the points above are true. I had a sample of brand new oil analyzed for comparison. When my oil looses viscosity and additive package, I replace the 2qt spin on filter and add 2qts of new oil. This replaces the additives and brings the oil back to spec.
The system I use claims if you pump new oil threw this filter it will make it clearer than it was from the factory, "newer"
I love it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
o.k. 1 for and how many nays

yep this technoligy also removed a water problem in a excavator hyd system. we changed 120 gal of hyd oil 3 times in one month,in an attempt to rid the system of water. how it entered the system was the easy part,inexpensive repair but at 500+ a drum cost 1200.00 per change plus i paid my team 36.00 hr for three hrs trucked cont ,fluids to plant put in a settling tank waited for water to separate somewhat before recycling it to heat energy for the shop .then still after a few hours analisys revealed wait , still waiting , ready, yep needed a change reason water contaminaition,well i gave this thing a shot .and i figured if this thing holds a gallon or 2. how the hell is it capabile of extracting more than its capacity? well ill tell you when the tech removed the top cover took off like a clown in a can. scared the living shit out of this guy,the filter media was so full of contaminats it expanded .and ill post this stuff when i figure out how to. but honest to god 99.98% of the water gone fluid suitable for reuse. i sure as hell get reversion in my very expensive motor now and im bldg a 40.000$ blower motor now.( so i can at least try to impress the chicks out here) im running this filtraition,many boaters suffer from h2o.in oil this thing works,its cheaper than 5 oil changes, and if it wont work for you he gives your money back ! really whats not to like about it ? thinkl about it with an open mind we need to stop wasting the planets resorces,:)devil:) this might help safe summer ladies/gents
:)devil i would agree with your findings when the oil begins to degregete, we do a full blown service like i said in above threads. but that dosent happen till 4/5 extensions for me,the labor alone is huge , now a mech goes out into field with a brillo pad sized replacement cartridge .extracts a sample,pops in a new flter looks around see if anything is falling apart bam 1/2 hr cat 345 excavator service looks to good to be true rite ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Micromanging oil in a performance boat engine?

The Lubrifiner system has been around for over 40 years for big truck diesels and yes these type of by-pass filter units will clean oil and keep the particulate materials smaller and at lesser levels along with heating off moisture and contaminants. I used their units on our fleet trucks for years on Cummins, Cats, Detroits with good results but on oil analysis we still saw our TBN numbers drop after a while to a point we had to do oil changes to get those numbers back up and get the wear package additives back in line. If you use one of these units and do periodic oil analysis and replace the wear package and keep good TBN numbers you will have cleaner longer living oil. The real determiner for performance boat engines is the cost vs. benefit relationship here. Really good synthetic oils with appropriate wear packages and good filter media spin on oil filters are relatively cheap by today's standard, the oil volume is small as compared to big diesels and industrial engines, and the real usage in most boats only requires maybe 1-2 oil changes per year.
so do the math, if you can see a good return on investment and document better engine life, GO FOR IT! I think its probably more important to remember in performance marine engines the majority of failures and damage does not come from oil cleanliness or change intervals, but from just good old mechanical failures! Just my two cents here.;)

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
 

·
Platinum Member
Joined
·
2,014 Posts
The Lubrifiner system has been around for over 40 years for big truck diesels and yes these type of by-pass filter units will clean oil and keep the particulate materials smaller and at lesser levels along with heating off moisture and contaminants. I used their units on our fleet trucks for years on Cummins, Cats, Detroits with good results but on oil analysis we still saw our TBN numbers drop after a while to a point we had to do oil changes to get those numbers back up and get the wear package additives back in line. If you use one of these units and do periodic oil analysis and replace the wear package and keep good TBN numbers you will have cleaner longer living oil. The real determiner for performance boat engines is the cost vs. benefit relationship here. Really good synthetic oils with appropriate wear packages and good filter media spin on oil filters are relatively cheap by today's standard, the oil volume is small as compared to big diesels and industrial engines, and the real usage in most boats only requires maybe 1-2 oil changes per year.
so do the math, if you can see a good return on investment and document better engine life, GO FOR IT! I think its probably more important to remember in performance marine engines the majority of failures and damage does not come from oil cleanliness or change intervals, but from just good old mechanical failures! Just my two cents here.;)

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
All good points

I have had the privilege to attend a few clinics put on by the major players in the field

In mining, heavy Ag and commercial trucking

And have been apart of fleet test case studies many times

on oil,fuel,filtering and tire testing

It's a big part of the fleet budgets and can be a major cost cutter( done right )in the 100's and 100's of k's

We saved major money by having oil testing done every 15,000 miles

several times we had a finding of coolant in the oil. Having the manufacture pay under

warranty claims more than paid for it'self
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
new fltr tech

yes i actually agree with most all of these threads,im not using this soley for the oil savings alone,but after seeing this tear down on a c13 cat industrail engine,i was sold 23888 hr is a lot ,no cam berring wear ,none, a few thousands on rod/mains .granted a cam doesnt have the stresses the recip assy does !!! man if i can give this guy 500.00 bucks,run my engine for 1 third of that,have no water ever,and even save my oil ,,,count me in ,,,,this thing isnt a luberfinder,or a centrifuge ,but a high quality good lookin coated alum housing,with a alum anodized pressure valve,filter unit couldnt weigh more than 8/10#. 3 wing nuts to replace the media no tools reqd hell if i
developed a coolant leak underway i think i would most likley do less damage, and thanks for all the intrest good/bad,,,,,,,,,,,,hell its all good,,ill post the install im gettin better,ill post results ,and when i pull engine at seasons end ill put up some pics,,,i would like to note ill install this thing at the end of this season on a blower procharged,500+ cui eng,with some good hi end components,but ill post the heavy equipment findings sooner as im going to pilot 2 machines possibly a million dollor rtc crane we will add to fleet this year,and most likley put one on my favorite cat 345 in the fleet,thank you keep it going need more info, also this i belive this thing stores the h20 in the media ,and doesnt heat off the water molicules but removes them ,it was an amazing feat to remove 99.988% of the water, i struggled to remove the good old fashioned way by dumping 1000.00 of dollors worth of hyd oil in the waste oil heater wasnt a total loss but i was paying 11.00 $ a gallon to heat insted of a seemingly deal at 4.00 $ BUCKS thanks for the response ive really learned a lot on this one
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top