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Formerly NoCal NoBoat
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, I screwed up. I now know what that Honeywell Electronic Air Cleaner (the one with the four dirty and clogged filters) is for.

A/C is a Ruud Achiever 10 Seer/3 ton. Gas Furnace is a Rheem Criterion II plus 2. Installed in 1999 says the tech.

Diagnosis - Dirty filters. Major refrigerant leak from A/C (has no remaining refrigerant in system). Cracked impeller housing on the furnace. He pulled the heat exchanger and says signs of overheating, but no cracks there.
High static pressure - guage read "1.0", dropped to .5 when he removed the guts from the air cleaner. Says "System undersized" - he measured the house at approx 1,900 square feet. House is in NorCal, City of Concord. Single story rancher, 2/2. Occasional summer highs to 100 in the summer. Winter lows to 30 early mornings.

Tech gave a ballpark estimate of $1,700 to leak test, repair, and recharge system with R22 ?, and replace cracked impeller housing on furnace.

Salesman would love to come over Saturday morning and estimate a replacement system - $7,500 and up, mostly up.

Any advice beyond the mandatory "wash your filters @ZZwhole" would be really appreciated. After that quote, I'm seriously thinking about a six-pack with my sandwich. I'm off work, and not driving. WTF.

Thanks, Tom O
 

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First, I screwed up. I now know what that Honeywell Electronic Air Cleaner (the one with the four dirty and clogged filters) is for.

A/C is a Ruud Achiever 10 Seer/3 ton. Gas Furnace is a Rheem Criterion II plus 2. Installed in 1999 says the tech.

Diagnosis - Dirty filters. Major refrigerant leak from A/C (has no remaining refrigerant in system). Cracked impeller housing on the furnace. He pulled the heat exchanger and says signs of overheating, but no cracks there.
High static pressure - guage read "1.0", dropped to .5 when he removed the guts from the air cleaner. Says "System undersized" - he measured the house at approx 1,900 square feet. House is in NorCal, City of Concord. Single story rancher, 2/2. Occasional summer highs to 100 in the summer. Winter lows to 30 early mornings.


Tech gave a ballpark estimate of $1,700 to leak test, repair, and recharge system with R22 ?, and replace cracked impeller housing on furnace.

Salesman would love to come over Saturday morning and estimate a replacement system - $7,500 and up, mostly up.

Any advice beyond the mandatory "wash your filters @ZZwhole" would be really appreciated. After that quote, I'm seriously thinking about a six-pack with my sandwich. I'm off work, and not driving. WTF.

Thanks, Tom O

PM me your number and I will have my neighbor give you a call. He is a HVAC guy and he is a board member but I know for a fact that he wont be on hear for a week or so as his sister is getting married this weekend so he is hosting the out of town guests.....sucker..lol

I will see him tonight at some point.

Terry
 

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Northern CA DCB Sales
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PM me your number and I will have my nieghbor give you a call. He is a HVAC guy and he is a board member but I know for a fact that he wont be on hear for a week or so as his sister is getting married this weekend so he is hosting the out of town guests.....sucker..lol

I will see him tonight at some point.

Terry
Guy D Rat is speaking of just repaired my sisters AC at fraction of the costs she had been estimated from other shops. Good guy fair price.
 

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First, I screwed up. I now know what that Honeywell Electronic Air Cleaner (the one with the four dirty and clogged filters) is for.

A/C is a Ruud Achiever 10 Seer/3 ton. Gas Furnace is a Rheem Criterion II plus 2. Installed in 1999 says the tech.

Diagnosis - Dirty filters. Major refrigerant leak from A/C (has no remaining refrigerant in system). Cracked impeller housing on the furnace. He pulled the heat exchanger and says signs of overheating, but no cracks there.
High static pressure - guage read "1.0", dropped to .5 when he removed the guts from the air cleaner. Says "System undersized" - he measured the house at approx 1,900 square feet. House is in NorCal, City of Concord. Single story rancher, 2/2. Occasional summer highs to 100 in the summer. Winter lows to 30 early mornings.

Tech gave a ballpark estimate of $1,700 to leak test, repair, and recharge system with R22 ?, and replace cracked impeller housing on furnace.

Salesman would love to come over Saturday morning and estimate a replacement system - $7,500 and up, mostly up.

Any advice beyond the mandatory "wash your filters @ZZwhole" would be really appreciated. After that quote, I'm seriously thinking about a six-pack with my sandwich. I'm off work, and not driving. WTF.

Thanks, Tom O
First off why fix the old system?? A 3 ton system is too small for a 1900 square foot house. you need a 5 ton system, but don't call that guy his prices are way too HIGH. WOW 1700 to do a leak check. Maybe my prices are too low by 1500. Really call another company. Its guys like that that give us a bad name. 7500 would be a good price if its a full cut in. New duct work in the attic all new cieling boxes and grills, furnace , coil and condenser, line set , t-stat. Get It he is HIGH
 

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With an avg temp of 45* year around and your hotest month of July the avg temp is only 70* you should be ok with a 3 ton. Get someone to repair the leak and charge it for a few hundred bucks and you should be good to go. ;) Could cost as much as $500.00 but I wouldn't think any more than that.
 

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Were manual J calcs done to determine proper sizing? Most of us go on a square footage rule of thumb because residential is so forgiving, but without calcs who can be sure. Seems to be more of a socal thing to just throw a size at it based on footage.
 

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First off why fix the old system?? A 3 ton system is too small for a 1900 square foot house. you need a 5 ton system, but don't call that guy his prices are way too HIGH. WOW 1700 to do a leak check. Maybe my prices are too low by 1500. Really call another company. Its guys like that that give us a bad name. 7500 would be a good price if its a full cut in. New duct work in the attic all new cieling boxes and grills, furnace , coil and condenser, line set , t-stat. Get It he is HIGH
Depends on climate, 5 ton on a 1900 sqft house is quite overkill for this area. My house is 2700 sq feet on a 4 ton and has zero issues cooling/heating it, all 14 yrs of it. His climate he mentioned is pretty much just like ours. I guess it will boil down to, has the 3 ton done the job all these yrs?

As for price, a changeout from us on a 3 ton would be around 5500.00, 13 Seer, 90% furn, AC, coil, lineset, stat. So ya, 7500 seems high.

Ya, that 1700 for the leak check sounds like a dont waste the money price, just buy the new system crap.
 

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First, I screwed up. I now know what that Honeywell Electronic Air Cleaner (the one with the four dirty and clogged filters) is for.

A/C is a Ruud Achiever 10 Seer/3 ton. Gas Furnace is a Rheem Criterion II plus 2. Installed in 1999 says the tech.

Diagnosis - Dirty filters. Major refrigerant leak from A/C (has no remaining refrigerant in system). Cracked impeller housing on the furnace. He pulled the heat exchanger and says signs of overheating, but no cracks there.
High static pressure - guage read "1.0", dropped to .5 when he removed the guts from the air cleaner. Says "System undersized" - he measured the house at approx 1,900 square feet. House is in NorCal, City of Concord. Single story rancher, 2/2. Occasional summer highs to 100 in the summer. Winter lows to 30 early mornings.
Tech gave a ballpark estimate of $1,700 to leak test, repair, and recharge system with R22 ?, and replace cracked impeller housing on furnace.

Salesman would love to come over Saturday morning and estimate a replacement system - $7,500 and up, mostly up.

Any advice beyond the mandatory "wash your filters @ZZwhole" would be really appreciated. After that quote, I'm seriously thinking about a six-pack with my sandwich. I'm off work, and not driving. WTF.

Thanks, Tom O

Cracked impeller housing on the furnace.

What is the impeller housing? Blower housing maybe? If it is, just pull the blower assembly out and weld the crack with a gas torch. Normally you can fix small cracks. Be sure to clean the blower wheel good because if the housing has a crack its usually because the blower wheel is out of balance.

High static pressure - guage read "1.0", dropped to .5 when he removed the guts from the air cleaner

Don't know how you can have high static discharge air pressure when your intake air filter is completely blocked. In fact its impossible. Did he read the static with the blower door off???


He pulled the heat exchanger and says signs of overheating, but no cracks there.

Did he really pull the heat exchanger out or just inspect it? That takes a lot of time ,why would he do that? Did he charge you for that?

You need to get rid of that guy and get someone that knows what they are doing.:)sphss
 

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First, need to know more about the house to be able to "size" a machine, houses built after say the late 80's have much better insulation and dual pane windows yada yada...Did the existing unit keep the temp in the house under control?, that is how you tell if a system is sized right, not someones opinion, I did a 3300 foot house in the foothills two years ago and we used a single 4 ton 13 SEER system and had the windows tinted along with a whole house exhaust fan, and he is super happy with it, he has never had a house warmer than 78* and utilities never exeeded $360.:)devil

1900 square feet should require approx 1000 CFM if you go with a high SEER (13-15) unit, you should use 300 CFM per ton to figure it on the ragged edge this puts you at just over 3 tons, be careful when going larger on equipment, you may have undersized ductwork if it's not upgraded with the replacement, then you are talking quite a bit more money......all of this may require going with refrigerant 410A equipment which is no big deal because R22 is on a phase out and equipment is getting a little scarce for R22.

If it were mine, I would go with a 4 ton high SEER machine and a condensing furnace (like 92%) you will pay more for it up front, but the energy saved, along with some PG&E rebates, you will have a payback of approx. 7 years if you dont try and figure the payback for the entire job (most guys do and this is an incorrect practice) not to mention a higher resale of the home.

As far as the repairs, I am a union service technician and do not do residential, but the amounts seem a little high, but realistically for this area, pretty close, if you do not feel comfortable with the guy, don't proceed with the repairs, you need to feel confident with spending this amount of dough...

I will go out on a limb and assume the 1"w.c. of static should have read -1"w.c. and dropped to -.5" w.c. on the return duct between the filter and the fan, just a guess though.

PM me if I can help! Our shop is in Fremont and may have someone avail. to help you out.

GT :)hand
 

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With an avg temp of 45* year around and your hotest month of July the avg temp is only 70* you should be ok with a 3 ton. Get someone to repair the leak and charge it for a few hundred bucks and you should be good to go. ;) Could cost as much as $500.00 but I wouldn't think any more than that.
I didn't know the ave temp is 45. you probably dont even need A/C. I was going off of So Cal Weather. Sorry dont know where Concord is at. 3 ton would problay work
 

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I didn't know the ave temp is 45. you probably dont even need A/C. I was going off of So Cal Weather. Sorry dont know where Concord is at. 3 ton would problay work
I think the other guy is smoking crack. Concord can get HOT. My pops lives in Clayton, the city next door and they've seen over 100 this year. Average 45...haha:)sphss
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Deltarat and Boatmaster - I sent a PM yesterday. I hope to hear from your guy when he returns from the wedding.

Thank you all for your replies ! I appreciate your candid take on things.
I'll try to briefly answer your questions. After I posted, I had a chance to talk to my neighbor, a professional property manager who presently handles about 300 units. Spoke well of the company who came out, but told me he doesn't use them because their bids are high.

The $1,700 repair estimate was for a leak test, leak repair, recharge with R-22 (which I was told is going away, not green, etc.) Plus part and labor to change out the cracked "impeller housing" on furnace. You guys may have a different name for it. The cracked part is attached to the front of the furnace box. The impeller turns inside of it. There is a small motor attached to the cracked housing.

The 100 degree high temp and the 30 degree low temp are max/min for our location. The weather in Concord is closer to Sacramento's. San Francisco temps are usually 15 to 20 cooler on a given day.
85-90 summer and 45-55 winter are more typical.

Manual J calcs were not done. He did measure square footage inside and deducted the sun porch (no ducts there).

GT Jets made all good points. The house was built in 1965. My mom was the second owner. She wasn't cheap, but she didn't upgrade either. I've got the original single pane aluminum windows. Concord homes are famous for their lack of insulation. Cement tile roof. Mature landscape, but roof is not completely shaded. It gets very hot in the attic. I've been reading the other thread about whole-house fans. I think we're good to go for one of those. GT is also right about the static pressure readings.

I'm guessing that the guy who did the system in 1999 gave my mom a low, medium, and high option. Mom went low, and the three ton was good enough for her needs. The climate is different from 10 years ago, many more 100+ days in summer. The three ton struggles to keep up, and the hot attic wins every time.

I'll be getting more estimates, and I'll let you know what happens in a shorter post. In any case, I hope we meet on/off the water at some point, and the cold ones are on me. Tom O
 
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