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Discussion Starter #1
Alright so i got her back at the lake for a couple of passes after work and man was that fun.(Mt Lake Mafia BEWARE!!! ;)) I got her up to 50 at 4500 RPMs. I think she has a bit more but i had two people and two full tanks not to mention i got an engine issue so i shut her down before i could really play any more, or im just a boy and need to talk junk.

Two things. I have some oil leakage around the head. On the seam between the head and the intake and on the other side of the head there was some drip on the headers.. Valve cover gasket maybe (Its cork old and shitty)? You tell me.

this is where i am talking.





Second, I have a temp issue. I have two temp sensors, one in each head. the one on the passenger side is toward the back and the one on the driver side is toward the front.

the driver side reads between 155-165 but the passenger ran all the way up to 280:|err:|err:|err. What can cause such a huge difference in the temp?

Both gauges went up at the same speed and read identical until 160 and then the passenger side gauge just kept going up. After shut down and a long cool off it started to go back down. Pictures of plumbing below. thermostat is 160 and no leaks around there or any other water leaks to mention from water system.




 

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Overheating problem.

Alright so i got her back at the lake for a couple of passes after work and man was that fun.(Mt Lake Mafia BEWARE!!! ;)) I got her up to 50 at 4500 RPMs. I think she has a bit more but i had two people and two full tanks not to mention i got an engine issue so i shut her down before i could really play any more, or im just a boy and need to talk junk.

Two things. I have some oil leakage around the head. On the seam between the head and the intake and on the other side of the head there was some drip on the headers.. Valve cover gasket maybe (Its cork old and shitty)? You tell me.

this is where i am talking.





Second, I have a temp issue. I have two temp sensors, one in each head. the one on the passenger side is toward the back and the one on the driver side is toward the front.

the driver side reads between 155-165 but the passenger ran all the way up to 280:|err:|err:|err. What can cause such a huge difference in the temp?

Both gauges went up at the same speed and read identical until 160 and then the passenger side gauge just kept going up. After shut down and a long cool off it started to go back down. Pictures of plumbing below. thermostat is 160 and no leaks around there or any other water leaks to mention from water system.




If you stop and think about where a thermostat is designed to work that will end your'e problem. Thermostats are desiged for a closed system radiator, where water is recycled. Take fresh water feed system that gets a cold splash of water and then think about what the thermostat will do? (slam shut) That's why your'e temps per cyclinder are out of wack. One side getting water and the other never gets cooled because the stat has said NO!!! Something to think about. What head gets water first and which is cooler. In a boat the best way to heat a motor is to hold the water in the motor as long as possible and then let it go. This will cool the entire engine and create an even temp in the motor. My suggestion would be lose the stat and restrict the out flow. One more thought would be to regulate the temp in relation to what an iron or aluminum motor was designed for. I have seen alot of guys on these threads saying the motor runs perfect, 130-160? Check your'e daily driver and try and tell me the ford gm and mopar guys, And the overseas builders that build the crap that lasts forever at 195 plus that I'm wrong. My current cruiser runs 180 to 210 and runs great. The reason it runs at that temp is I don't restrict the intake of coolant but restrict the discharge to create the temp most motors "those idiots" that forgot more than most of us will ever know Designed them to work at. M
 

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Restricting the dump will build up pressure in the motor and can cause leaks, oil temp is what's critical for lubrication not water temp!...
 

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Restricting the dump will build up pressure in the motor and can cause leaks, oil temp is what's critical for lubrication not water temp!...
REALLY, I didn't say create a butt-load of pressure cosidering you are feeding cold water to a motor that is designed to work at a mid to high temp. I was saying to keep temp even in the WHOLE motor. Lubrication is a whole different story. Most people feel that a butt-load of oil pressure is the key to making a motor last forever. I however have learned that what the motor needs to last is alot less than 80 plus oil pressure at high RPM. Oil cycle and flow mean more than a gauge going overboard. Have you ever heard of bearing wash, and over-oiling a motor. If so go to a guy that does dyno testing and ask him what oil he uses to get the highest numbers for the paperwork. M
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I did have a 190 in there and it ran real hot (same side) so i dropped it to a 160 to see if it would help.


I have never for the life of me designed a block or heads so pardon my ignorance.

If you look at the pics it looks like the water is getting even distribution from the front of the block where the water pump should be then coming out of the T-Stat when it opens. There is also over flow to allow the water to passthru while the t-stat is closed.

I have zero issue running a 190 stat as thats what GM says for my motor and one side does really well at it but the other side is all screwy. Could you explain how water flows thru a block so i can better understand?
 

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REALLY, I didn't say create a butt-load of pressure cosidering you are feeding cold water to a motor that is designed to work at a mid to high temp. I was saying to keep temp even in the WHOLE motor. Lubrication is a whole different story. Most people feel that a butt-load of oil pressure is the key to making a motor last forever. I however have learned that what the motor needs to last is alot less than 80 plus oil pressure at high RPM. Oil cycle and flow mean more than a gauge going overboard. Have you ever heard of bearing wash, and over-oiling a motor. If so go to a guy that does dyno testing and ask him what oil he uses to get the highest numbers for the paperwork. M
Re read the post, nothing said about oil pressure "OIL TEMP" is critical!..
 

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Re read the post, nothing said about oil pressure "OIL TEMP" is critical!..
Okay hear we go again. Oil temp is created by what, how is oil temp regulated and by what? The hotter oil gets the more it loses it's lubrication qualities. DID I OFFEND????? M
 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
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Restricting the outflow WILL overpressure the block, unless provision is made to dump excess pressure overboard.

Keep in mind too that cooling systems in car engines are designed to handle a MAX of arround 20 PSI, with a cushion.

In my jet, the cooling water is drawn from the high-pressure side of the pump, which may well exceed 200PSI (double that if you put enough HP to it).

I'm one of those thermostat-less guys whose engine is quite happy running "130* to 170*", has for 30 years now (same engine, Dad bought the boat new in 1978). I restrict the INTAKE of water to regulate temperature and DO NOT RESTRICT OUTFLOW.

This one is lasting "forever", and, as usual, I seem to be doing everything "wrong".
"those idiots" that forgot more than most of us will ever know Designed them to work at.
Some other idiots figured out a few things too IMO.


Watched a guy on another board switch to a t-stat, to "make it better", because it is just "better'. People had told him it was the "right way to set his boat up".
Made no other engine changes.

Promptly blew holes in pistons from detonation.
Failed to consider his 3-yr-old setup was quite happy running cooler, but, when heated further, was pushed over the edge into heat-induced pre-ignition.

What is unequal about your cooling system water routing, left to right side? That inequality is cooking one side,a dn will ruin something sooner or later.

Making 300* in the heads, head gaskets will be trash soon.

Worry about the old crappy valve cover gasket leak after you stop cooking the crap out of the engine.
 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
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Most people feel that a butt-load of oil pressure is the key to making a motor last forever. I however have learned that what the motor needs to last is alot less than 80 plus oil pressure at high RPM.
Soooooo many people I have seen want Max-volume pumps, hogged out to flow more, 70PSI at idle and more running 5,000RPM and up.
Then troubles busting pump drives.


It only needs what it needs, and that is usually a LOT less than a lot of people think it is.

And yes, oil PRESSURE wasn't brought up, oil TEMPERATURE was.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Soooooo many people I have seen want Max-volume pumps, hogged out to flow more, 70PSI at idle and more running 5,000RPM and up.
Then troubles busting pump drives.


It only needs what it needs, and that is usually a LOT less than a lot of people think it is.

And yes, oil PRESSURE wasn't brought up, oil TEMPERATURE was.

Guys lets not get all bent out of shape...


Here is a diagram of my set up.. not to scale or anything but should give you the idea. Is the consensus that i pull the T-Stat and restrict the water some how?




But how does this explain how one side gets so damn hot and one side so cool? Could there be a blockage?Do i just not understand how the flow of water goes thru this thing?
 

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Only if it goes beyond it's "working" temp, nothing to do with water temp!...
Definetly not out getting bent out of shape, but someone needs to tell me what keeps the oil at operating temp and unless it's a air cooled engine then how. also has somebody ever heard of flow creating friction and friction creating heat. At this point I would like to hear more. M
 

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Guys lets not get all bent out of shape...


Here is a diagram of my set up.. not to scale or anything but should give you the idea. Is the consensus that i pull the T-Stat and restrict the water some how?




But how does this explain how one side gets so damn hot and one side so cool? Could there be a blockage?Do i just not understand how the flow of water goes thru this thing?
Not getting bent outa shape at all!. Why don't you do it the easy way, just run the water to the front of the block and out the intake at the T-stat housing(without a T-Stat)to the lake, just let it flow!...
 

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I run water out of the back of the intake on the stuff I build just for that reason. All motors are like that just nobody ever realizes it because they dont normaly run a temp sensor like you did. Ever notice its rear cylinders that normaly cause trouble?
 

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Did this under/overheating just happen suddenly? That would indicate a blockage of some sort.
 

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I think everyone will agree if you are going to run a t-stat 160* is better than 190*. Mine is on the shelf not because of the issues your having but because I didn't like my temp pogoing up and down and the thought of ice cold water hitting parts that were 200*+. If you are going to run the t-stat shouldn't he drill a hole in it guys to keep from air locking? My 1st time out with a oil temp gauge way last sunday,I learned 2 things 1) it took way longer than I thought to get oil up to temp,I can't tell you how many times that meant I had accelerated hard on too cold of oil. 2) once the oil temp came up water temp started to spike quick, after adjusting my inlet side a few times I was running at an oil temp of 200* with the water around 135*, I can only imagin what my oil temp would have been if the h20 was 190* or more.
 

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That's on of the reasons I am running a thermostat- to get the oil temp and block temp up. That and the 4 port housing let's m edivert water to the manifolds all the time. Am I wrong here guys?
 

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Restricting the outflow WILL overpressure the block, unless provision is made to dump excess pressure overboard.

Keep in mind too that cooling systems in car engines are designed to handle a MAX of arround 20 PSI, with a cushion.

In my jet, the cooling water is drawn from the high-pressure side of the pump, which may well exceed 200PSI (double that if you put enough HP to it).

I'm one of those thermostat-less guys whose engine is quite happy running "130* to 170*", has for 30 years now (same engine, Dad bought the boat new in 1978). I restrict the INTAKE of water to regulate temperature and DO NOT RESTRICT OUTFLOW.

This one is lasting "forever", and, as usual, I seem to be doing everything "wrong".

Some other idiots figured out a few things too IMO.


Watched a guy on another board switch to a t-stat, to "make it better", because it is just "better'. People had told him it was the "right way to set his boat up".
Made no other engine changes.

Promptly blew holes in pistons from detonation.
Failed to consider his 3-yr-old setup was quite happy running cooler, but, when heated further, was pushed over the edge into heat-induced pre-ignition.

What is unequal about your cooling system water routing, left to right side? That inequality is cooking one side,a dn will ruin something sooner or later.

Making 300* in the heads, head gaskets will be trash soon.

Worry about the old crappy valve cover gasket leak after you stop cooking the crap out of the engine.
The only reason for uneven head temps is the water is not filling the block. In other words the stat is acting to fast and not alowing the motor to fill. This will result in vapor lock and hot spots. Thats why I recommend regulating the out flow to fill all the voids in the block and heads. Stats are designed for a closed system and not a cold water to warm motor situation so it's not easy to get dialed in until flow gets at a point where it fills ALL the motor and then is spit out the back. I have regulated water into the boat and regulated water exiting the boat and got the best results with holding water in the block.This Eliminates hot spots and hot and cold cylinders. And if you want to see oil temp go thru the roof make it pass thru hot and cold areas of a motor. M
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Not getting bent outa shape at all!. Why don't you do it the easy way, just run the water to the front of the block and out the intake at the T-stat housing(without a T-Stat)to the lake, just let it flow!...

So with that i would need to remove the T sections on the front of the block and replace them with L sections to push the water intto the block and let it flow thru..

I had thought about this before and it would even simplify my plumbing.

This problem has not just started. before i hooked up the second temp guage the only one was on that side and it allways ran hot. Thats why i got the second one and never ran it too long as it would start to over heat.


I hate to sound like a broken record here but i still am missing something. Why does one side of the block heat up so much more than the other side. I get the cylinders in back will get hotter but the difference should not be that different. How does water flow from the front of the block up thru the block and out? If there is a possibility of some sort of blockage i want to address it regardless of how its plumbed.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The only reason for uneven head temps is the water is not filling the block. In other words the stat is acting to fast and not alowing the motor to fill. This will result in vapor lock and hot spots. Thats why I recommend regulating the out flow to fill all the voids in the block and heads. Stats are designed for a closed system and not a cold water to warm motor situation so it's not easy to get dialed in until flow gets at a point where it fills ALL the motor and then is spit out the back. I have regulated water into the boat and regulated water exiting the boat and got the best results with holding water in the block.This Eliminates hot spots and hot and cold cylinders. And if you want to see oil temp go thru the roof make it pass thru hot and cold areas of a motor. M

If i read this right the most likely cause of hot spots is erregular water flow... Sounds legit to me. Its easy enough to regulate the water coming out with out overkill on the pressure...

thats easy enough to try. thanks.


So i I'll need ot swap out ot one of these : http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=6&catid=358&productid=2106&CFID=353130&CFTOKEN=10791634

Where can i find the L shaped Waterpump hole peices?
 
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