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Discussion Starter #1
just got this boat from Maryland last week.


first time out, running awesome for 30 mins cruising around. came up to our spot and cut off the boat. about 20 mins later, tried to crank it and wouldnt start back. battery got weak pretty fast trying to start it. took the extra deep cycle outta a friends ski nautique and put in the boat . a few seconds after cranking off that battery and she fired right up. swapped back in my battery while it was running so it could recharge. rode around for 5 mins and came back and cut it off. about an hour later we road out and hammered it down. the motor wouldnt turn past 4000 when i hit it and i let off the throttle and it cut off. turned around to check out the motor and a lot of water was in the floor(im guessing it was from the boat stopping so fast when it cut off), after getting it pumped out with the bilges, i noticed something seeping out of the front corner of the valve cover. looked like a milkshake, oil and water mixing. .

there are two tubes that come off the valve covers that go to a catch can on the back of the motor with a breather. inside the catch can was about 10 ounces of clear water, no oil. tore off the valve covers and there was a lot of that really thick off white color milky film on the top inside of the valve covers. and water sitting in the top of the heads. tore off the intake and noticed that 6 of 8 intake valve guides were cracked. drained the oil and it was all milky also. all the spark plugs looked perfect so no water was going into the cylinders. pistons all look ok on the topside, faces of valves too. the copper headgaskets looked ok when i took the heads off. at this point i dont know how water got into the oil. havent messed with anything put 10 gallons of 112 in it and 6 gallons of 93 before i took it out. other than that all i did was check the oil. there was milky oil in the oil galley under the intake manifold and clean water sittin in the head under the rocker arms. so it looks as if water has gotten in from the topside somewhere but not sure how. any input here would be greatly appreciated. taking the heads to get checked out this week and valve guides replaced
 

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Look in at the dump hoses. dirt dobers love to get in them? Water valve up to high? etc etc
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Look in at the dump hoses. dirt dobers love to get in them? Water valve up to high? etc etc
when the motor was idling in the water the two outlets on the back of the transom were pushing water out fine out of two ports. one port however was a bit cooler than the other.
 

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No Sandbar To Far
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Ditch the copper headgaskets
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
what i found...

-clean water in the catch can, one hose off the top of each valve cover... no oil, just water- about 10 ounces.
-standing water, not milky sitting on the heads
-did a compression test before taking anything apart and all the cylinders on the right side were 170-175. the left side was all 148-170.. seems odd left side was lower.
-lots of cream colored buildup under the tops of the valve covers.
-pistons looked normal
-rockers and rods all looked good
-spark plugs all looked normal.
-6 of 8 intake valve guides all had a single vertical crack


at this point, should i just get the heads checked out/valve guides fixed and change the head gaskets and throw it back together?
 

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wet headers?? stuck basset tee valve(if you have one). I had the same prob from a blown moroso crankcase evacuation valve (between headers & valve covers)
 

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Copper??

Ditch the copper headgaskets
The copper gasket can be made to work, you just have to add a bead of silicone around all the water passages between the heads and block.... OH, and anneal the gasket before reusing.... Take a gas torch and make the flame rich enough to soot the gasket, then make the flame hot enough to burn the soot off..... Are the heads and/or the block O ringed??

Which head gaskets should I use then and what guides should I look into. Heads are 990s.
See above, but the 1017 Felpros work fine for me... AND again, add a little silicone around ALL the water passages... About 1/16th of an inch bead on the block, then the same on top of the gasket before setting the heads on.....Do the same thing around the head to intake water ports, front, and back, even though there isn't a passage in the back, seal around it anyway....AND, be sure to use thread sealer or silicone on the head bolts/studs... I use the ARP "sealer/lubricant".......BBC head bolts ARE live to water in the block, and they WILL leak if not sealed with something.....

Ray
 

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Discussion Starter #9
wet headers?? stuck basset tee valve(if you have one). I had the same prob from a blown moroso crankcase evacuation valve (between headers & valve covers)
yea me and the previous owner were thinking the same thing possibly.

The copper gasket can be made to work, you just have to add a bead of silicone around all the water passages between the heads and block.... OH, and anneal the gasket before reusing.... Take a gas torch and make the flame rich enough to soot the gasket, then make the flame hot enough to burn the soot off..... Are the heads and/or the block O ringed??



See above, but the 1017 Felpros work fine for me... AND again, add a little silicone around ALL the water passages... About 1/16th of an inch bead on the block, then the same on top of the gasket before setting the heads on.....Do the same thing around the head to intake water ports, front, and back, even though there isn't a passage in the back, seal around it anyway....AND, be sure to use thread sealer or silicone on the head bolts/studs... I use the ARP "sealer/lubricant".......BBC head bolts ARE live to water in the block, and they WILL leak if not sealed with something.....

Ray
seeing the groove on the block around the cylinders i guess they are o-ringed and the rings on the heads. so im new to this oring stuff, which head gaskets do i need to get. and as far as valve guides anything in particular?

 

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Copper...

You might be stuck with the copper gaskets. The o rings push the soft copper down into the grooves, (microscopically) ...AND the o rings MIGHT interfere with the "sealer rings" on the Felpro gaskets.... and make it seal less around the cylinders.... You need to do some "homework" and learn about O rings.....OR, mill them flush with the heads. If you try to just take them out, you will create leaks where the non round Felpro "chamber seal" doesn't cover the empty groove. Maybe someone here knows of a gasket maker/number that has a true "round" sealer ring built in...... And will work without the o rings.... Otherwise, use the copper, re annealed....(made soft again)..... And seal the water passages as mentioned before...

Ray
 

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water leaks

Check your heads. If the rocker studs are not sealed, you can get water from there as well.

Head bolts need sealant.

Copper gaskets need sealant around the water ports.

If you have water in your headers during idle, the reversion of the cam will suck the water back into the cylinder, and push past the rings.

Those are the areas you "normally" get water from. Any thing else could be a crack.

Jerry
 

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He mentioned cracked valve guides, that can and will put water in the top end.
But certainly also check the other things too after reassembly.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the help fellas. Gonna take the heads to get checked and new guides. Gonna try and get up with the engine builder as far as the headgaskets and thickness they used.
 

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Get a pair of Flatout RCC copper gaskets...they will seal water 100% and are the best copper gasket out there right now...totally reuseable as well.
If you can stand it and have the clearance you can mill the heads to get rid of the groove and use a regular gasket...Hopefully they only cut the groove .025 or so deep. Of course recheck v/p clearance ect.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Get a pair of Flatout RCC copper gaskets...they will seal water 100% and are the best copper gasket out there right now...totally reuseable as well.
If you can stand it and have the clearance you can mill the heads to get rid of the groove and use a regular gasket...Hopefully they only cut the groove .025 or so deep. Of course recheck v/p clearance ect.
I will check out those gaskets for sure. Not trying to have to do any machine work right now if I can just get it fixed and back running.

Any special type of valve guides yal recommend?
 

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didn't find anywhere where you said what you were running-studs,or bolts. but I know that if you were running studs, it's a good chance thats
where your leak is coming from. If the studs were not locktited into place,
jetpumps seem to like to force the water up the threads due to the
elevated water pressure that they see. not saying that's what is wrong
w/yours, but I have seen it happen quite a few times:D
 

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Discussion Starter #17
didn't find anywhere where you said what you were running-studs,or bolts. but I know that if you were running studs, it's a good chance thats
where your leak is coming from. If the studs were not locktited into place,
jetpumps seem to like to force the water up the threads due to the
elevated water pressure that they see. not saying that's what is wrong
w/yours, but I have seen it happen quite a few times:D
running bolts. thought about switching up to studs since the topend is tore apart.
 

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Bolts/studs

running bolts. thought about switching up to studs since the topend is tore apart.
It really makes no difference for most applications, BUT, your head bolts may be worn out...Yes, they do wear out, and most everyone reuses them time and time again...Once they are stretched out, or over stretched, they lose their ability to clamp things down tight enough....No matter how much you over tighten them.... Which, BTW, is what destroys most of them.... A new set of quality bolts, (ARPs work) will save you a few bucks over the stud kits.... FYI, stay away from the cheepies. You get what you pay for......

Ray
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ok just double checked the head gasket and bore size. motor is 4.31 bore and the gasket thickness was .042 Found the ID number on the old head gaskets and it was a set of SCE 013324 copper gaskets. 4.32 bore x.042 gasket thickness. On summitracing.com there are only three available head gaskets for that size.

its either the SCE Titan copper gaskets, the SCE Pro copper gaskets, or summits in house copper gaskets. the Pro gaskets wont ship until November 15th and id like to get the boat out again before it turns cold. So my main question, the SCE Titan gaskets suitable over the SCE Pros? Thanks
 
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