[Ronboats]

I have a Vertex mag and have heard it doesn't matter if I use one or the other. Is there any reasdon not to use spiral core wires? Or any reason TO use them? I have always thought solid was better.

 

[Hass828]

I've just been through this, you should run the solid cores if you dont have any other electronics that would be affected.
I ran helically wound suppression cores for a long time , to keep the efi noise from messing with my boost controler,but I've been having a little issue as of lately so I think I'm going to try going with the solid cores and a manual boost controller.
Any mag shop will tell you to run the solid cores, why would you want to put a resistor between the mag and your plugs ?

 

[Morg]

Run solid.

 

[EVILFORCE]

Solids if you are not running a electronically controlled injection system. If you have any on-board electronics use the spirals.

 

[VDRIVERACING]

I have a Vertex mag and have heard it doesn't matter if I use one or the other. Is there any reasdon not to use spiral core wires? Or any reason TO use them? I have always thought solid was better.

My only issue with the solids, is I want to use a radio for my spotter, but that's a no-go without switching to the spiro wraps. So...in researching this topic (to death I might add...), I sought out and spoke with some of the top minds in the field, among which was the head engineer at MSD.

Bottom line: The spiro core will deliver less (but perhaps more than enough) voltage to the spark plug than the solid core wire. HOWEVER!....I was also told that in my application(blown gas BBC, maybe 12 lbs of boost) that it would probably not be noticable in terms of its affect on HP. It might be noticable in far more extreme applications.

In preparing for a dyno run next month, I contacted some of the local dyno shops and was told the solid core wire may mess with their instruments, so I'm not sure we're even going to able to test with both type wires (but we'll try!!!).

All that said, I agree, in principle, with the others. If you do not need shielding for electronics, the solids are "best". Sort of like $4,000 custom made/tuned stainless steel step headers are "best". All that matters may be what you need.

 

[scott foxwell]

You can run grounded wire shielding.

 

[Moneypit]

Faraid

There is a donut shaped deal called a "faraid" or something like that, that shields the mag "noise" from the radio..........Ray

 

[alkyexpress]

Run Solid,,,,,,,,, vertex / joe hunt mag's need solid to deliver what power they have,,, if you try to talk to a spotter on a radio turn the motor off , you wouldn't be able to hear him very well anyway,lol, ........Eric



Ps: Joe hunt recommend's solid wire's.........

 

[VDRIVERACING]

Run Solid,,,,,,,,, vertex / joe hunt mag's need solid to deliver what power they have,,, if you try to talk to a spotter on a radio turn the motor off , you wouldn't be able to hear him very well anyway,lol, ........Eric



Ps: Joe hunt recommend's solid wire's.........

Yes, Joe Hunt and Don Zig are going to tell you solid core. Those men are great at what they do, no disrespect, but I needed more information. I wanted to know what the performance difference would be in scientific terms that could be measured.

The point I tried to make is that only very exotic setups actually NEED the full voltage. For example---I'm just using these numbers for comparison sake(not actual!!!)--if your gas motor will fire with 20K volts, then 25K volts at the plug is not necessary to reach THAT engine's potential.

And, BTW, the radio actually works pretty good. I highly recommend the custom "ear-canal" ear phones.

 

[scott foxwell]

I bet there's some real high HP exotics running with spiral core wires. Spiral cores have come a LONG way.
Kinda like picking pepper outa flysh it, isn't it? hand

 

[wizbang]

http://www.palomar-engineers.com/Ferrite_Beads/ferrite_beads.html

 

[Burnt Sticks]

Not only should you run solid core wires, but non resister plugs. If you only need 25k volts, go get a mallery dual point. It will out out more than that.

 

[alkyexpress]

Yes, Joe Hunt and Don Zig are going to tell you solid core. Those men are great at what they do, no disrespect, but I needed more information. I wanted to know what the performance difference would be in scientific terms that could be measured.

The point I tried to make is that only very exotic setups actually NEED the full voltage. For example---I'm just using these numbers for comparison sake(not actual!!!)--if your gas motor will fire with 20K volts, then 25K volts at the plug is not necessary to reach THAT engine's potential.

And, BTW, the radio actually works pretty good. I highly recommend the custom "ear-canal" ear phones.

If you are going to the Dyno( and the solid's dont mess with their equipment ) take both set's and report back ,,, would like to know,,,My msd say's to run spirol wires ,,it has a elec control box thou .........Erichand

 

[River Rat 005]

I think at the level of performance most of us are at, the type of wires, headers or oil we us , isn't going to make any noticable difference. Even at the drags in the brackets. Now if this was pro stock where .001 difference means win or lose well.......Just my .02 worth.

Of coures, I'd like to know what the dyno has to say also. Could be interesting.

Tim

 

[thatguy]

Good question.

When I bought the Sanger with a Vertex, the seller was adamant that I only run solid core wires.
He said that using resistor wire and plugs can damage the Mag??
I have browsed all over the Taylor Vertex site and they say solid only, but don't really say anything about damage to the Mag.
Here is the link: http://www.taylorvertex.com/Vertex/

Also, I can not get my inductive digital timing light to work on the Mag at all. It says RPMs are like 4000 at idle, and the light flashes all over the place.
It works perfect on the Miller with an MSD R2R.
What is the trick with that??

 

[Hass828]

Good question.

When I bought the Sanger with a Vertex, the seller was adamant that I only run solid core wires.
He said that using resistor wire and plugs can damage the Mag??
I have browsed all over the Taylor Vertex site and they say solid only, but don't really say anything about damage to the Mag.
Here is the link: http://www.taylorvertex.com/Vertex/

Also, I can not get my inductive digital timing light to work on the Mag at all. It says RPMs are like 4000 at idle, and the light flashes all over the place.
It works perfect on the Miller with an MSD R2R.
What is the trick with that??

get one of these. Best 50bucks you'll spend
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Ignition-Timing-Light,922.html

Or a Buzz box from Taylor, I like the light, I think its better to set the timing in a dynamic state.

 

[scott foxwell]

I think at the level of performance most of us are at, the type of wires, headers or oil we us , isn't going to make any noticable difference. Even at the drags in the brackets. Now if this was pro stock where .001 difference means win or lose well.......Just my .02 worth.

Of coures, I'd like to know what the dyno has to say also. Could be interesting.

Tim

Not speaking for the OP, but I do know a little about his deal. This is for a blown GN engine that's going to be making some very decent power and will be pushed to it's limit, and the OP isn't in to cutting corners. I understand his questions and why. In thought, I don't see this application pushing the requirements of a quality spiral wound wire to it's limit where it begins to be a detriment. In application, I don't know, but I can't imagine so. Moderate cyl pressures, racing gas (not considered exotic), reasonable boost and reasonable rpm levels, I don't believe, are going to require the maximum capacity of either the mag or the (good) wires, but it would be interesting to be able to quantify that.

 

[River Rat 005]

Steel, thanks for the additional info. I can see the blower being of concern. In the end I think we came to the same conclusion. Now it's up to any electronics he may have.

Tim

 

[Hass828]

Not speaking for the OP, but I do know a little about his deal. This is for a blown GN engine that's going to be making some very decent power and will be pushed to it's limit, and the OP isn't in to cutting corners. I understand his questions and why. In thought, I don't see this application pushing the requirements of a quality spiral wound wire to it's limit where it begins to be a detriment. In application, I don't know, but I can't imagine so. Moderate cyl pressures, racing gas (not considered exotic), reasonable boost and reasonable rpm levels, I don't believe, are going to require the maximum capacity of either the mag or the (good) wires, but it would be interesting to be able to quantify that.

Steel , I dont know at what point you would start having problems lighting the mixture off, I would think that it would be different for every engine.
But I run a Joe Hunt Vertex also, and a few years ago I tried to change over to a 7AL3 setup from MSD . It would run great , start great everything till I got in the NOS with boost up around 15-17psi then it would act just like you were letting on & off the nos button. No poping or banging, it just wouldnt run. Tried several things like closing the plug gap, made sure rotor phasing was good in the dist. Even sent the box back and got another new one and the problem was still there. Talked to MSD to extent about it on the phone and finally just to test that this was the problem I dropped my mag back in and it would run like a raped ape.
So , this came straight from MSD "the 7AL isnt enough to light off the cylinder press-you'll need a mag-I'll transfer you to our mag department", well I allready had a mag so I boxed all there stuff up & sent it back for a refund and have been running my mag ever since, although Me & a friend made my own boost controlled retard for it.
Anyway , I've been running Mallory heically wound suppression core wires up till this last year because when I tried the solid cores it was making my electronic boost controler go haywire. This last year My little problem returned , its not wanting to burn the mixture. Dont know if I've got a wire going away or if the mag needs freshening again(had it done last year).
So I bought a set of solid core wires and I may try them and put a manual boost controler on to see if this will take care of it. But really shouldnt have to. It ran just like this for several years and I havent changed anything.

 

[VDRIVERACING]

Steel , I dont know at what point you would start having problems lighting the mixture off, I would think that it would be different for every engine.
But I run a Joe Hunt Vertex also, and a few years ago I tried to change over to a 7AL3 setup from MSD . It would run great , start great everything till I got in the NOS with boost up around 15-17psi then it would act just like you were letting on & off the nos button. No poping or banging, it just wouldnt run. Tried several things like closing the plug gap, made sure rotor phasing was good in the dist. Even sent the box back and got another new one and the problem was still there. Talked to MSD to extent about it on the phone and finally just to test that this was the problem I dropped my mag back in and it would run like a raped ape.
So , this came straight from MSD "the 7AL isnt enough to light off the cylinder press-you'll need a mag-I'll transfer you to our mag department", well I allready had a mag so I boxed all there stuff up & sent it back for a refund and have been running my mag ever since, although Me & a friend made my own boost controlled retard for it.
Anyway , I've been running Mallory heically wound suppression core wires up till this last year because when I tried the solid cores it was making my electronic boost controler go haywire. This last year My little problem returned , its not wanting to burn the mixture. Dont know if I've got a wire going away or if the mag needs freshening again(had it done last year).
So I bought a set of solid core wires and I may try them and put a manual boost controler on to see if this will take care of it. But really shouldnt have to. It ran just like this for several years and I havent changed anything.

Sipro/wrapped type wires dont last forever, and you may have a bad one. Not sure how all brands are, but MSD designs their Super Conductors with the wrapped wires so tight that when they go, they're gone! The idea is not a degrading wire that's hard to figure out, but one you can put an ohm meter on and observe resistance; any conduction means the wire is intact. If you've had the same wires for several years, probably time to change them out on general principle alone.