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Discussion Starter #1
I'm thinking yes, not seeing any fuel ring way down deep even with a magnifier.
Plugs look the same cruising at 3800 or WOT pass.
Also > too much transfer slot showing?


 

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Its hard to tell from the pictures but there appears to be some color deep in the plug and there is some soot around the plug base after the threads which would not indicate a lean condition. Were these pulled after a WOT pass with a quick shutdown? As for the transfer slots it doesn't look excessive. If much more that .040" is showing you may try adjusting the secondaries open a bit and back off the primaries. If you cover up the transfer slot too much you could get a noticable off idle stumble. How does it run?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Its hard to tell from the pictures but there appears to be some color deep in the plug and there is some soot around the plug base after the threads which would not indicate a lean condition. Were these pulled after a WOT pass with a quick shutdown? As for the transfer slots it doesn't look excessive. If much more that .040" is showing you may try adjusting the secondaries open a bit and back off the primaries. If you cover up the transfer slot too much you could get a noticeable off idle stumble. How does it run?
I'm in a tuning stage with my annular 850 DP > just cured a bad flat spot between 3800/4000 RPM > 8.5 power valve (vs the OE 6.5) in the primaries fixed that problem.

Have a VERY-slight stumble when holding 1600 RPM > when I cover the outboard air bleed with my finger it gets worse. No brass inserts in the two outboard Primary air bleeds.

Stock jetting is 78 square > that sucked bad :))ThumbsDwn
Jumped up to 81 primaries and 86 secondaries w/a blocked rear PV that's the plugs in pics.

Now heading out to try 84 primaries and 88 secondaries.

Great tip about the secondary butterflies > I'll keep that in mind.:))THumbsUp

EDIT > since I switched over to 20/50 synthetic I now have a VERY-SLIGHT oil splash on plug base, thus making it a little difficult to read.


Thanks, Ray
 

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Hammer, when you say there is no brass insert in the primary air bleed, does that mean there is a much larger hole there, as compared to the secondary idle outside bleed? Or the carb casting is drilled to th bleed size with no insert. If the insert is just gone, it has a huge effect on the transfer slot of the primaries.

The plugs do not look that lean based on the color of the plug body edge. You may what to seriously think about going to a equal heat range NGK non projected tip plug. Much easier to read. Projected tip plug run the ceramic and tip warmer than non projected. You can go back if you prefer them. But while tuning, they are a pain.



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Discussion Starter #5

GN and a few others
, thanks for clearing the confusion with this annular 850 and the many questions I have asked > and you have been more than gracious to answer :))THumbsUp
*I located the secondary adjustment screw however, I may not need to touch it.
*I now understand the "squaring of the T-slots"
*"spacers" I understand the bandaid comment > my way of thinking > being I'm using a dual plane intake for lower RPM throttle response and drive-ability 'maybe' a spacer will trick my Wieand Stealth to act more like a Team-G and add a little more RPM to WOT, no?
*or, would a Edelbrock Victor be a better direction?

Update from Thursday...
*the 1600 rpm miss is history as I simply turned out the idle mixture screws.
*while out on the water, I rotated/advanced the distributor about the size of a pencil line.
*the results from the above was >>> I was able to back down idle RPM thus close the butterflies even more and squaring the T-slots ;).
*the engine picked up 200 RPM up top > I'll need to put a dial-back light on it to see where total timing's at. It was at 35* all in by 3000
*even with increased jetting > the plugs appear very white and again, not seeing any fuel ring way down low in the plug > I may cut one open to have a better look.

*** In small steps I feel it's coming together quite well...I would like to set total timing for the max RPM but > be cautious to make sure I'm not on the cusp of detonation.

GN, air bleeds pic below
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Alittle combo of all of it. You richened it a taste with the mixture screw, kick a touch more timing in which allowed you to close down on the transfer slot and wala. You becoming a tuner Hammer.

And don't listen to MikeTeast. With your needle dick, you'll still be able to run 87 octane. But please. Keep those kind of tunning comments in the Gray Water forum
I should ban you for being such a BS'er....your help/suggestions got me there and for that, I'm adding you to my Valentines Day card list :D
Hey, is it me or are AC-Delco plugs difficult to read? Sure wish I could see just a little difference from 8 jet sizes. :)st
 

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Everything you're doing is right on, and looks like you're on the right track. Have you ever considered locking out your dist. timing? You really don't need a curve with a jet, and you'll realy like what it does to your throttle response and idle quality.
If I am seeing the plugs clearly enough, looks like you can stand a little more timing (if these are after the timing change).
An open spacer on your Stealth won't hurt a thing and may help dampen the signal a little and even it out across the carb. Also adds a little plenum volume. You may have to re-tune accordingly.
Delco plugs are not my favorite. I agree with GN...try the NGK.
Is all this testing with or without your scoop?
 

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GN, Steel: if you will again forgive a rookie...


I agree, if you can, lock out the dizzy. With a jet, the second you are in the gas hard enough to put a load on the motor, its already passed 2500-3000. And the extra timing at low unloaded Rs will make it much happer.

and kick a starter into the bilge...ask Soaker, or them Blower fags (who run locked out distributers) Of course i seen ignition lockouts, MSD boxes and such to help this. It is something to think about when locking out the timing.

I have my own ideas on distributers in N/A jetboat applications too, right or wrong...and i am not adverse to change based on suggestion of a better way.

1. Never use advanced electronics on the water if you plan to go far and make it back lots of times.

2. Know your cranking timing...unavoidable cam slop at the gear (thrust wobble) will vary this some 2deg but it is good to know, and it should be at 10-14deg. Easy start, good idle.

3. Know your WOT timing. Know your WOT timing. Know your WOT timing.

4. Never set the timing on the water without a light, no matter how small your penile line is. Know your WOT timing.
 

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I should ban you for being such a BS'er....your help/suggestions got me there and for that, I'm adding you to my Valentines Day card list :D
Hey, is it me or are AC-Delco plugs difficult to read? Sure wish I could see just a little difference from 8 jet sizes. :)st
you cannot read a plug for mixture where the plug is too hot to begin with. Consult Blown Daytona on this.

Now, remember, i USED to run a lot of nitrous and miles/hours...and will again...so i ran as rich an cool as i could get away with. Non-extended j-strap plugs...

Soaker used NGK and likes them...i cant read them: either from not being able to see the colors or just not knowing what to look for. I seem to be able to read my ac easier...especially the heat/'timing' line in the electrode.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
1. Never use advanced electronics on the water if you plan to go far and make it back lots of times.
What does this mean?
"advanced electronics"...are you saying my old Mallory Dual point was a better option vs my MSD RTR?
Reliable to no end it always got me out and back > and it's bagged in my boat (if) needed.;)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
NGK plugs...talk to me fellas > should I simply pick a plug for a 1969 454 OR, how bout you recommend a NGK part number for my 468 10:1 engine.
Any particular NGK, should it be U-grooved, platinum or standard copper core.
And what about gap > more/less with my MSD RTR ?
Ears and eyes open!
 

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What does this mean?
"advanced electronics"...are you saying my old Mallory Dual point was a better option vs my MSD RTR?
Reliable to no end it always got me out and back > and it's bagged in my boat (if) needed.;)
i wont run msd anything...i would run points if i did not know you cant get them right. Ever.

you know what i run...cheep hei $50 to my door, vacuum advance modified for 4deg. One wire hookemup, unless you want a tach. Keep one on hand, just in case. Been thru 4 of them...saltwater ate them up and made them ugly (until i started to use WD40)...

ac r43t recessed tip ground to a J gap .32

and a clear distributer cap.

There is a module for the hei that doubles as a rev limiter i thought about getting...advanced electronics...i forbore.

strap on thermometers

floatation

active pvc

small block



all cheep shit

all for a purpose, right or wrong
 

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Discussion Starter #18
...If I am seeing the plugs clearly enough, looks like you can stand a little more timing (if these are after the timing change).
An open spacer on your Stealth won't hurt a thing and may help dampen the signal a little and even it out across the carb. Also adds a little plenum volume. You may have to re-tune accordingly.
Delco plugs are not my favorite. I agree with GN...try the NGK.
Is all this testing with or without your scoop?
Bout time you chimed in > though I was going to have to send you some flowers or something > but then my BFF GN would kick me to the curb.:D

All testing is with scoop on and severely gutted Barron spark arrestor > only two windings of mesh.
That plug pic was post advancing the dizy >>> I have a few pics from today and will post ASAP.

I have not yet considered locking out the timing.

NOTE to GN I now can confirm the secondaries are coming into play at 4,100 RPM...vacuum at that time is 8" > PV is a 8.5
I cruise a lot between 35-4000
 

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NGK plugs...talk to me fellas > should I simply pick a plug for a 1969 454 !
always a good idea to just pick a plug in a jetboat application. Without understanding why...it just fits that engine.

I have my own rookie experiences here too, right or wrong. And only small block experience (other than what Soaker has generously lent me).

1. Run a non projected tip plug

2. Run a J plug

3. Run as cold a plug as will not foul. Start cold.

4. Run an AC plug so you can read it***

5. Cant tell you about the gap. I run .32 with my cheeeep HEI


***this is me...i really believe an NGK plug is better, and that they can be read. I can see the soot at the thread base, as well as the 'A/F ratio' at the base. I can see the unimportant coloring on the end of the porcelain and pay undue attention to it. I cant see the heat line on the ground electrode.

my understanding of the NGK it is that it is read different but is nontheless there as clearly as any plug. It has been demonstrated to me some other benifits of the NGK plug, as far as reading them. Matter of fact i think the guy where Soaker had his heads welded said he liked them because detonation was easier to see on them.
 

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Your BFF GN7??? Oh, that does it. :mad:
:D

Try without the scoop. See if there's any difference, just for reference. You can leave the spark arrestor on.

Do you know if the secondaries are opening all the way?


Bout time you chimed in > though I was going to have to send you some flowers or something > but then my BFF GN would kick me to the curb.:D

All testing is with scoop on and severely gutted Barron spark arrestor > only two windings of mesh.
That plug pic was post advancing the dizy >>> I have a few pics from today and will post ASAP.

I have not yet considered locking out the timing.

NOTE to GN I now can confirm the secondaries are coming into play at 4,100 RPM...vacuum at that time is 8" > PV is a 8.5
I cruise a lot between 35-4000
 
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