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Premium Member
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4,704 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Here we go. Which one and why?
I know a bit about the Pyrometer. I drill a hole into the #7 or #4 header. Tap the hole and install the sensor. This gauge reads Heat.

The 02 Sensor, I have no clue as to how it works. I looked for a gauge but maybe I'm searching for the wrong part name.

Is the 02 the same as a Pyro in how it works? Obviously the 02 meters oxygen. What are the numbers I should be looking for for safe running range? If its a number I'm looking out for.

After finding out the hard way:D I don't want to do this again with out one or the other sensor.

Any educators out there?
 

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Cantard
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5,017 Posts
get an Air/Fuel guage. It will tell you alot more than your egt.
Egt is good but your biggest issue is the a/f, once you have it set you can watch egt for bad fuel, detonation exc.
 

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senior member
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1,814 Posts
i have had both on my motor & the o2 sensor is good for dialing in the way it runs,for example seeing if it is leaning or fat when the power valves should or is kicking in , if it is fat or lean with just the primary circuit running,etc. but are you burning up the motor at 14.7to1 or 12.5 to1? how much boost? are you getting close to melting anything on a full run or are you starting to build up temp the longer you have it wot? this is where the temp is the most important. 12.5 to 1 afr just might not be fat enough , this is where you will know for sure. the pyro will tell you ,say @ 1450* & then you start building up to 1550* near the end of the 1/4mile or long run on the river etc. you will then know you are leaning out or it is just not fat enough on the big end.i usually melted stuff @ 1550 * on my motor at the location i mounted the guage. i am now running the temp @ 1425* i feel that i could run it at 1475* but i have not messed with it yet .
 

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Highaboosta
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3,431 Posts
EGT's are highest at Stoich so what do you do if it reads (what you think is) high ? Richen it up until it runs bad ?

I used to monitor EGT's and on WOT runs it would read 1750+ but the engine ran good. Year end teardowns showed no problems so I ignore the EGT now.
The EGT gauge sits on the bench and I use the A/F ratio gauge all the time.
I think turbo applications are always going to read high because you are restricting the exhaust flow.

Getting the A/F right is what matters, There is no changing whatever EGT the motor wants to run at.
 

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Premium Member
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4,704 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Thanks everyone. I checked on all the gauges mentioned. 300 bux is the medium price for the AFR guages.

I think I'm sold on the AFR's. I really like the Dynojet one. Its also a buck cheaper than the AEM. The Autometers are least costly for the basic gauge and the most expensive for the wideband.. But I'm still leaning to the Dynojets.

I'm learning here. Thanks everyone..

cave
 

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21 Daytona
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5,291 Posts
this is the one my nephew installed on his blower motor
and the one I will purchase also, wow what an eye opener
you can tell what really going one with the tune.

this gauge can be configured to alarm at a preset reading

http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=3604&sid=11



LED digital display.
0-4v data output feed for ECU, data acquisition unit, or Laptop tuning
Auto-Dimming gauge brightness feature
Includes high-quality Bosch wideband O2 sensor
Display data in Lambda or numerical A/F ratio
User programmable range
Peak recall/memory
10:1 to 20:1 AFR Range for Gasoline Applications
Adjustable for Alternate Fuel Types (Ethanol, Methanol, Propane, CNG)
6:1 to 18:1 AFR Range for Alternate Fuel Types
User Programmable Warning Function
This product has no provision for dial illumination/backlighting.
 

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Registered
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4,288 Posts
shootout

Cave if your interested, I can fax you comparison/shootout so to speak of the top 8 wide band systems. It directly compares them for; accuracy,latency,display,ease of use, and software(or lack of). Its like 6 pages.
 

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Highaboosta
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3,431 Posts
Whichever AFR gauge you get be sure to find one with a readily available O2 sensor because sooner or later you will need to replace it. Especially if you run leaded fuel through it.

Make sure it will record/datalog.

Also make sure it will readout in Lambda as well as A/F ratio.
The sensors are quite accurate. You can blow in the exhaust pipe and it will show up on the gauge.
 

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senior member
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1,814 Posts
EGT's are highest at Stoich so what do you do if it reads (what you think is) high ? Richen it up until it runs bad ?

I used to monitor EGT's and on WOT runs it would read 1750+ but the engine ran good. Year end teardowns showed no problems so I ignore the EGT now.
The EGT gauge sits on the bench and I use the A/F ratio gauge all the time.
I think turbo applications are always going to read high because you are restricting the exhaust flow.

Getting the A/F right is what matters, There is no changing whatever EGT the motor wants to run at.
my gauge only goes up to 1600* & it is at the water log riser right after the water log. so if it was by the head i guess i could be @ 1750* if i had say , a diesel pyro?. anyway i had burned my motor up at 1550-1600 on the last stretch of the 1/4 mile. i did hit 1600* once & not burn anything up, heated quick, vacuum line was off. got lucky , just a second more & it would have. i know i did it 4 times! i melted two pistons the very last time & i was using a a/f ratio gauge.it was @ 12.5 if i remember right & was fluctuating, having issues i guess? obviosly you dont want to run wot at 14.7 .where are you running at wot? can you run a full mile across the lake at 1750*? i can see at the very very last part of a 1/4 mi just before you shut down, but not from 1/8 mi to the finish ,i wouldn't think.if you tune wot with a/f ratio ,whats the magic #? 13lbs boost 12.75 to1 12.3, 11.5? 18 lbs of boost @ 11.3? i just guess it is right before you melt sh*t. if you've melted shi*t then you know absolutely where the fine line is. & that is valueble info .if you change boost i would think that the same piston would still melt @ the same temp?but you would have to fatten it up as not to build up heat , so then what a/f ratio for 20lbs of boost?
 

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Highaboosta
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3,431 Posts
my gauge only goes up to 1600* & it is at the water log riser right after the water log. so if it was by the head i guess i could be @ 1750* if i had say , a diesel pyro?. anyway i had burned my motor up at 1550-1600 on the last stretch of the 1/4 mile. i did hit 1600* once & not burn anything up, heated quick, vacuum line was off. got lucky , just a second more & it would have. i know i did it 4 times! i melted two pistons the very last time & i was using a a/f ratio gauge.it was @ 12.5 if i remember right & was fluctuating, having issues i guess? obviosly you dont want to run wot at 14.7 .where are you running at wot? can you run a full mile across the lake at 1750*? i can see at the very very last part of a 1/4 mi just before you shut down, but not from 1/8 mi to the finish ,i wouldn't think.if you tune wot with a/f ratio ,whats the magic #? 13lbs boost 12.75 to1 12.3, 11.5? 18 lbs of boost @ 11.3? i just guess it is right before you melt sh*t. if you've melted shi*t then you know absolutely where the fine line is. & that is valueble info .if you change boost i would think that the same piston would still melt @ the same temp?but you would have to fatten it up as not to build up heat , so then what a/f ratio for 20lbs of boost?
Your meltdown was probably related to timing and not to AFR.
I had a timing related meltdown when trying out pump gas.
There is actually more energy in pump gas but it burns quick and the total timing must be turned back 4 degrees or more from race gas. The motor ran real strong until ..............:)sphss

At WOT you may want to be a little richer than 12.5:1 aim for 12:1 or even 11.7:1 that extra fuel will cool the mixture some more.

I run E85 fuel and don't read on a AFR scale. I read lambda which is the common scale for all fuels. At light load cruise speed pulling 14" vaccuum I am at 1.0 lambda which is stoich and it progresses to .85 lambda at 0 psig and when the table gets into the pressure side it progresses to .72 lambda at max boost.

As far as running WOT for a mile in this boat.............
......not with me driving. :))eek:))
 

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Premium Member
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2,145 Posts
Thanks everyone. I checked on all the gauges mentioned. 300 bux is the medium price for the AFR guages.

I think I'm sold on the AFR's. I really like the Dynojet one. Its also a buck cheaper than the AEM. The Autometers are least costly for the basic gauge and the most expensive for the wideband.. But I'm still leaning to the Dynojets.

I'm learning here. Thanks everyone..

cave
Hey Cave, what do YOU want the device to do? Reason I ask is I work for Dynojet and know what the capabilities of our devices are. Unchained recommended that the device be able to read lambda and/or A/F ratio. He also mentioned logging capability. What do YOU want to be able to see?

For instance, a digital gauge will not read lambda, nor will it allow a different transfer function to run other fuels (E85, alcohol, etc)...but our LCD device will. The base WB2 unit does not log data unless an LCD is used (can be used with or without a digital gauge). Our older WideBand Commander (generation 1 product) is still available and has other features like onboard logging and relay output to drive a warning light/shift light/nitrous system, etc.

Tell me what you want it to do and I can recommend which of our products will do that for you.

Good luck.
 
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