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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
At Straub Technologies we have been working with several oil companies over the last 2 years to give the consumer an oil that functions the best with hyd roller lifters. Because Morels tolerances are so tight they need an oil that not only lubricates the engine but functions as a hydraulic oil.

After testing we will now recommend running Driven Oil for all hyd roller engines.
Here is a note from Lake Speed Jr:

Chris,

Sorry so long to get back to you. It has been one of those days...

It was great chatting with you about hydraulic roller lifters in high-performance engines and how oil viscosity plays a significant role in the performance of the lifter. Many people seem to miss the fact that oil is a hydraulic fluid in these engines, and these lifters require the correct viscosity hydraulic fluid to function properly. And there are many factors that affect the viscosity of an oil once it's been in the engine for a while. All of this comes together to make the choice of oil a very important factor for a high-performance, hydraulic roller lifter engine.

At Straub Technologies we have done extensive testing with several engine builders and parts manufacturing companies to determine the correct viscosity and formulas to provide the best performance for hydraulic roller lifters.

Extensive engine testing in both race engines and street engines has confirmed that a 10W–40 viscosity grade provides better hydraulic lifter performance than 30 grades or 50 grade motor oils. As a result of this testing, here are the oils that we recommend for high-performance, hydraulic roller lifter engines.

Break-in: BR40 (part number 03706)
Hot Rod/Show Car: HR5 (part number 03806)
Street performance: HR6 (part number 03906)

Driven is not sold in Walmart but can be bought at local speed shops and some online vendors.

One unique additive the I really love about this oil is the use a chemical compound developed in WWII that prevents corrosion during long periods of storage. Most of our Hot Rods sit, so the added factor that the oil provide protection to your engine during long periods of storage is a huge plus.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Scott, would that hold for a flat hydraulic as well?
Yes. I don't see why not other than a lot of lifters don't have the tolerances that the Morel's do and might "like" heavier oil. I think all three of those oils are flat tappet rated.
 

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scott foxwell; said:
Extensive engine testing in both race engines and street engines has confirmed that a 10W–40 viscosity grade provides better hydraulic lifter performance than 30 grades or 50 grade motor oils. As a result of this testing, here are the oils that we recommend for high-performance, hydraulic roller lifter engines.

Break-in: BR40 (part number 03706)
Hot Rod/Show Car: HR5 (part number 03806)
Street performance: HR6 (part number 03906)
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Isn't this a boating site?? What about a boat engine running Morel Hydraulics?

Oil viscosity doesn't only pertain to lifters... There's a couple other parts in an engine you know. What would be the effects of running a 10-40 oil in a lake boat? Merc recommends 20-50 in a lot of their stuff... At least they used to.




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Yes. I don't see why not other than a lot of lifters don't have the tolerances that the Morel's do and might "like" heavier oil. I think all three of those oils are flat tappet rated.
Thank you Scott. I have ran kendall on alcohol engines and VR-1 on gas engines 40wt. so now I am probably going to retrain the brain for other oils or bring back a case each time I go to arizona. Mark
 

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Are hyd lifters still taboo in the hp boating world? I just went against the grain and had a pump gas (hydraulic) roller motor built for a jet river racer/ drag application. I went hyd after reading some of Foxwells builds that put up very good results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Are hyd lifters still taboo in the hp boating world? I just went against the grain and had a pump gas (hydraulic) roller motor built for a jet river racer/ drag application.
Nothing wrong with hyd. rollers in a boat engine. :))THumbsUp
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Isn't this a boating site??
Why, yes it is! :yes:
What about a boat engine running Morel Hydraulics?
What about it?
Oil viscosity doesn't only pertain to lifters... There's a couple other parts in an engine you know.
Do tell!
What would be the effects of running a 10-40 oil in a lake boat?
I guess I'd have to know more about the engine.
Merc recommends 20-50 in a lot of their stuff... At least they used to.




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OK. :dunno:
 

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Why, yes it is! :yes:
What about it?
Do tell!
I guess I'd have to know more about the engine.
OK. :dunno:
I thought I was asking a legitimate question...

I learned a lot from you Scott, bought parts from you, talked to you on the phone about parts and ideas, even discussed mutual friends. Sorry to have bothered you.


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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I thought I was asking a legitimate question...

I learned a lot from you Scott, bought parts from you, talked to you on the phone about parts and ideas, even discussed mutual friends. Sorry to have bothered you.


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Not a bother, just sounded more like you were challenging the information rather than asking a question. I answered your questions;
You asked, "what about a boat engine running Morel hydraulics?". Not sure what you're asking. What about it?
The only other relevant question was about the effects of running 10w40 in a lake boat. That's just too vague to answer or even comment on. Like I said, I'd have to know a lot more about the engine.
 

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What would you run on a naturally asperated alky motor running solid lifters...
It's a dry sump deal
Just curious on what you think thanks!!
 

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Scott,
So my only thought to being in a marine application would be aeration. Have you seen one oil show better results in resisting aeration than another? Knowing that marine or endurance application suffer with this and that the fact that it causes issues with hydraulic lifters I just had to ask if you knew anything about it. I heard it talked about that somebodies oil was formulated to resist aeration (which surprised me) so I figured I would ask you as you and Chris are in the know.

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Scott,
So my only thought to being in a marine application would be aeration. Have you seen one oil show better results in resisting aeration than another? Knowing that marine or endurance application suffer with this and that the fact that it causes issues with hydraulic lifters I just had to ask if you knew anything about it. I heard it talked about that somebodies oil was formulated to resist aeration (which surprised me) so I figured I would ask you as you and Chris are in the know.

Paul
It was mentioned in the seminar that the Driven oil did have anti-aeration properties that other oils didn't. I don't know any details on why or what, but it was talked about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
What would you run on a naturally asperated alky motor running solid lifters...
It's a dry sump deal
Just curious on what you think thanks!!
I'm not all that familiar with alky but from what I know, the biggest problem is oil contamination and why a lot of guys running alky run heavier oil. IMO if you have a good tune and aren't excessively contamination your oil then the 40wt should be fine...given that the other clearances in the engine are appropriate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Scott,
So my only thought to being in a marine application would be aeration. Have you seen one oil show better results in resisting aeration than another? Knowing that marine or endurance application suffer with this and that the fact that it causes issues with hydraulic lifters I just had to ask if you knew anything about it. I heard it talked about that somebodies oil was formulated to resist aeration (which surprised me) so I figured I would ask you as you and Chris are in the know.

Paul
Following up on this:

From Lake Speed @ Driven;

"The other factor is air. Specifically, you don’t want air in your oil. Unfortunately, atmospheric pressure causes lubricants exposed to atmospheric pressure to contain approximately 8% dissolved air. The more air in your oil, the more your oil can compress. That is not good for hydraulic systems. Different anti-foam additives and base oils have varying air release properties. This is another area we have been investigating, and we have found some combinations to be much more effective at air release than others (despite neither oil showing increased level of foaming)

Altogether, we have witnessed changes in lifter/engine performance just by adjusting these factors (VII type/Shear Stability and Anti-foam additives/AirRelease). Everyone is free to chose whichever oil they like. If somebody is having issues with the lifters making noise or the engine falling off at higher engine speeds, it may be related to the oil. It is just food for thought."
 

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Thanks for the reply Scott. There are so many different things that can be formulated into oils these days, it is hard to figure out what is right for you and meet the needs of what you are looking for. Heaven knows you can't just make a decision based off of a viscosity and get the results you are looking for. Even worse is the fact that it is so far from a "one size fits all" product. Heck, my "marine" needs are extremely different than they family boat guy next doors needs. I get a kick out of this site and the fact that (for the most part) we all are trying to learn and help each other so we can all progress together.

Paul
 

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I asked Lake Speed Jr to respond and here it is:


In regards to lubricants for hydraulic roller lifter or even flat tappet hydraulic lifters, the key properties involve high shear flow rates and air-release properties. The normal method of measuring viscosity is called the Kinematic Viscosity and it is measured in Centistokes. This measurement can be done at various temperatures, and the standard temps are 40C and 100C, which is roughly 104F and 212F. The limit of the Kinematic viscosity test is that there is very little shear stress placed on the lubricant, and the lack of shear can result in a higher viscosity reading based on how the oil is formulated. Without getting into the details of oil formulations, nearly all multi-grade oils (think 10W-30) contain viscosity index improvers (some use the term viscosity modifiers). The additives (VII for short) are designed to help the oil not get too thick when it is cold (below freezing) and not get to thin when it is hot (oil temps above 200F). The VII additives are typically polymers that tend to thin out under increasing shear forces. As these polymers thin, so does the oil. The Shear Stability of the VII influences how the dynamic viscosity of the oil respond to changes in shear rates.

Obviously, the tighter tolerances of the Morel lifters will increase the shear forces seen in the oil. For that reason, the shear stability of the oil is important. You need a lubricant that can flow well enough at start-up to keep the lifters supplied with oil (aka hydraulic fluid), and the oil needs to maintain enough viscosity at high temperatures and high shear rates to keep the lifters properly filled. For engines that run on the street, the oil sump temps will likely be above 200F, so the HTHS value at 150C is a valuable guide. Although 150C is 300F, that is closer to the operating viscosity of the oil in highly stressed contacts such as the hydraulic lifter or rod bearings. We have seen that HTHS values of 3.8 to 4.1 cP work well in these conditions.

The other factor is air. Specifically, you don’t want air in your oil. Unfortunately, atmospheric pressure causes lubricants exposed to atmospheric pressure to contain approximately 8% dissolved air. The more air in your oil, the more your oil can compress. That is not good for hydraulic systems. Different anti-foam additives and base oils have varying air release properties. This is another area we have been investigating, and we have found some combinations to be much more effective at air release than others (despite neither oil showing increased level of foaming)

Altogether, we have witnessed changes in lifter/engine performance just by adjusting these factors (VII type/Shear Stability and Anti-foam additives/AirRelease). Everyone is free to chose whichever oil they like. If somebody is having issues with the lifters making noise or the engine falling off at higher engine speeds, it may be related to the oil. It is just food for thought.


Thanks,

Lake Speed, Jr
STLE Certified Lubrication Specialist
 
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