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Discussion Starter #1
I have been kicking around the idea of going blown alcohol, but don't no chit about it! How do you pick the correct supercharger for your application? Where is the math? The candidate engine is 4.5 bore x 4.0 stroke 11 to 1 compression. head flow at .800 intake is 390 and exh is 254. How do I figure my blower and injection needs. This would be a race only deal and I would like to see 1200 to 1300 hp. And if its possible maybe 1500 when I need it:D By the way the engine is good stuff all studs manley rods etc.. Thanks Scott King. PS will I need a mag or will my msd digital 6 box and crank trigger get it done?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This will be used in a jet boat a little tunnel. To run some bracket classes with. I know I am over shooting my HP needs I would like the set up to be capable of as little as 1000 hp. But I need the additional power for grudge racing. I am very leary of it as I do not now how you tune it to adjust for small et changes. Like with the N2O I can spray with the digiset to drop off at a pre determined time. How do you adjust for very small et changes? Thanks Scott King.
Ps how long do the stripped blowers last before they need attention?
 

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Super Junk, you have no idea what your asking. I don't know where you are located, but there are places that can set you up with a blower and an injection system that is pretty well dialed in, but as far as tuning for weather, and even more so, for ET, thats pure experience. Your not going to learn that over night. There is at least one member on these boards I know of that tore up an alky motor trying to slow it up. Every time you change the timing, its an injection tune. Change the blower speed, another injection tune up. I gaurantee, you'll break and burn stuff before you get it down pat.

But if you think this what you want to do. Try these guys. They can set you up with the blower and injection set up.
http://www.goodvibesracing.com/



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Discussion Starter #8
Super Junk, you have no idea what your asking. I don't know where you are located, but there are places that can set you up with a blower and an injection system that is pretty well dialed in, but as far as tuning for weather, and even more so, for ET, thats pure experience. Your not going to learn that over night. There is at least one member on these boards I know of that tore up an alky motor trying to slow it up. Every time you change the timing, its an injection tune. Change the blower speed, another injection tune up. I gaurantee, you'll break and burn stuff before you get it down pat.

But if you think this what you want to do. Try these guys. They can set you up with the blower and injection set up.
http://www.goodvibesracing.com/

You are right I don't know what I was asking. I am good enough at tearing good parts up now I don't need a new learling curve. I just priced some stuff online.... after I picked my self up off of the floor I think I can live with the nitrous thanks for your responses. Scott:)hand
 

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Scott,

A fresh unstripped blower will last a very long time. That with an Enderle Bird will make more than enough power for you.

The 11:1 makes the tuneup window narrow. A flat top piston blown injected is a very safe very forgiving on the tuneup combo. And will make easy 1,100 HP. with an 8-71 or 10-71

Now that I read your post again and you want 1,500 hp on a 509 CId engine. A race prepped blower is the only change to the above stuff. RBS superchargers can lead you in the right direction also.
 

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Sorry Fiat, I just had to:D
Fiat has plenty of time in the seat. Seen it with my own eyes, and pretty sure I raced him a time or two. So we know you're a super tuner these days, you got any raceing under your belt?

Super Junk, you have no idea what your asking. I don't know where you are located, but there are places that can set you up with a blower and an injection system that is pretty well dialed in, but as far as tuning for weather, and even more so, for ET, thats pure experience. Your not going to learn that over night. There is at least one member on these boards I know of that tore up an alky motor trying to slow it up. Every time you change the timing, its an injection tune. Change the blower speed, another injection tune up. I gaurantee, you'll break and burn stuff before you get it down pat.

But if you think this what you want to do. Try these guys. They can set you up with the blower and injection set up.
http://www.goodvibesracing.com/
SJ, do not let GN scare you off. If you're talking blown/injected gas, then yea, they're a PITA to tune. However, if your talking alky, most of what GN said is wrong. IF you pick a good tuner AND you listen to him you won't hurt anything motor wise. A good tuner (and I can name 2 with demonstrated experieance) will give you a set up and detailed instructions how to tune it to hit the number and adjust for air. If you listen (and don't do any thinking expept trying to learn), you won't hurt the motor. Understand you'll be making more power than you can imagine so the rest of the boat better be up to snuff or parts will break.
And Bob, if your talking about who I think you are regarding tearing a motor up while slowing it down again, your wrong. A tuner was brought in for the motor, the driver was just that.

You are right I don't know what I was asking. I am good enough at tearing good parts up now I don't need a new learling curve. I just priced some stuff online.... after I picked my self up off of the floor I think I can live with the nitrous thanks for your responses. Scott:)hand
Scott, I bought my complete blower, pump, hat, pully's, manifold, set up for alky, for around $3k. Deals are out there and the learning curve isn't that hard if you pay attention to the details. For a race deal, blown alky is THE cheapist way to make reliable power. However, they suck as a dual purpose deal so if you wanna play on the lake, maybe not the best choice. Good luck whichever way you go.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks guys have been thinking about it all day at work. This is for a race only deal no dual purpose boat. The initial price of new parts would be a big no go, as my wallet is not as tough as gn7's. The fuel used would be methanol. Is the compression to high for a good tuning window?
 

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Fiat has plenty of time in the seat. Seen it with my own eyes, and pretty sure I raced him a time or two. So we know you're a super tuner these days, you got any raceing under your belt?
I would like to think hat Fiat knew I was kidding. David, lighten up:)hand



SJ, do not let GN scare you off. If you're talking blown/injected gas, then yea, they're a PITA to tune. However, if your talking alky, most of what GN said is wrong. IF you pick a good tuner AND you listen to him you won't hurt anything motor wise. A good tuner (and I can name 2 with demonstrated experieance) will give you a set up and detailed instructions how to tune it to hit the number and adjust for air. If you listen (and don't do any thinking expept trying to learn), you won't hurt the motor. Understand you'll be making more power than you can imagine so the rest of the boat better be up to snuff or parts will break.
And Bob, if your talking about who I think you are regarding tearing a motor up while slowing it down again, your wrong. A tuner was brought in for the motor, the driver was just that.
.
David, you made my point even more valid. I agree with everything you said. Never mentioned you tuned anything. My point was, mistakes are made. You only made it more clear by telling me a "tuner" had his hand in it. So I am wrong for saying trying to slow one down with a tune is simpler said than done?



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David, you made my point even more valid. I agree with everything you said. Never mentioned you tuned anything. My point was, mistakes are made. You only made it more clear by telling me a "tuner" had his hand in it. So I am wrong for saying trying to slow one down with a tune is simpler said than done?
We agree, make a mistake in the tune up, you can hurt the motor. Doesn't matter if it's blown or not. My point is, after years of building, racing and tuning NA motors, blown alcohol is much, MUCH easier (at least at the fast bracket level). Sure, there's a bit of a learning curve. For me, it was to quit over-complicating things and just do what I was told (both really hard for me).
I'm still absolutely amazed how easy it is to make the boat significantly faster or slower while still being dead safe with just a pully and a pill.
 

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I think it is human nature to make things complicated. Sooner or later you gotta go back to basics.
The engine is just an air pump and we are controlling the air it gets by the blower.
The alcohol fuel curve is so wide and forgiving little change is required.

If you build an efficient combo.....you need less blower to do the job.
All so simple that a lot of people miss it.
 

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We agree, make a mistake in the tune up, you can hurt the motor. Doesn't matter if it's blown or not. My point is, after years of building, racing and tuning NA motors, blown alcohol is much, MUCH easier (at least at the fast bracket level). Sure, there's a bit of a learning curve. For me, it was to quit over-complicating things and just do what I was told (both really hard for me).
I'm still absolutely amazed how easy it is to make the boat significantly faster or slower while still being dead safe with just a pully and a pill.
I coudn't agree more. I was just pointing out there is a learning curve if you have never played with the stuff. Nothing more. There is no doubt you can slow anything down with a pulley and fuel change. But if you want to now how short your motor can live, let me slow it down. One pass, two max! Could I learn the stuff? Sure. I may actually have to soon than I wanted. Which is all I was conveying to Super Junk. Find somebody to show you, or you'll be F'ing stuff up.



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Thanks guys have been thinking about it all day at work. This is for a race only deal no dual purpose boat. The initial price of new parts would be a big no go, as my wallet is not as tough as gn7's. The fuel used would be methanol. Is the compression to high for a good tuning window?
hey scott, it was great visitin with you guys back there. you had more faith than i did :D

there are some guys around here that run blown alky in their river jets. they may not cruise too far up or down the river, but wherever they're going, they can get there quickly... just gotta tow a few extra drums along... :D
 

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I coudn't agree more. I was just pointing out there is a learning curve if you have never played with the stuff. Nothing more. There is no doubt you can slow anything down with a pulley and fuel change. But if you want to now how short your motor can live, let me slow it down. One pass, two max! Could I learn the stuff? Sure. I may actually have to soon than I wanted. Which is all I was conveying to Super Junk. Find somebody to show you, or you'll be F'ing stuff up.
I was leary of blown alcohol for years after watching lots of people struggle with blowing crap up, trying to start it, make all kinds of noise on the rope and then blubber all the way down the track, etc. After running 2 races with Tony's motor, it was clear how easy blown alcohol can be. We'd prime the motor once in the morning, never primed it again the rest of the day. Started easily, and hauled friggen ass. My motor is a different, but with Fiat's tune up and him showing me how to run/tune it, again, we got a very easy piece to live with. You need someone knowledgeable on your team to show you the ropes, or it will get expensive really quick. Do it right and there's no cheaper way to make HP.
 

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blower and hat

I have been kicking around the idea of going blown alcohol, but don't no chit about it! How do you pick the correct supercharger for your application? Where is the math? The candidate engine is 4.5 bore x 4.0 stroke 11 to 1 compression. head flow at .800 intake is 390 and exh is 254. How do I figure my blower and injection needs. This would be a race only deal and I would like to see 1200 to 1300 hp. And if its possible maybe 1500 when I need it:D By the way the engine is good stuff all studs manley rods etc.. Thanks Scott King. PS will I need a mag or will my msd digital 6 box and crank trigger get it done?
i have some stuff that might help you:D i made a mistake about a month ago, and put a nice hi-helix retro littlefield and a sweet buzzard catcher in the spam section. i think my mistake was listing it so cheap. its still for sale, and i think people assume its crap, because its listed at about .50 cents on the dollar.

if your interested, its $1800 for the blower w/ snout, and $700 for the buzzard, with square cut doors. or $2500 for both. i thought they were going in a 19 daytona, but they are still here collecting dust. pics in the spam section, about a month back.
 
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