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Discussion Starter #1
Not quite a plane yet, but showing much more lethality potential than Chinas laughable entry.

Meet the newest Russian super fighter- thing is we cant laugh off the need for the F22's capability.

These guys are competent, and skilled.

This is a threat folks- and you can bet they'll likely sell them.

Uncle Dave
 

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UD the Russians are Chess Players and very competent in all aerospace disciplines, this is very dangerous.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
UD the Russians are Chess Players and very competent in all aerospace disciplines, this is very dangerous.
Yeah I agree.

These are clever resourceful people no doubt.
What they cant build they are incredibly adept at stealing, and possessing of enormous resources the Russians are a force to be reckoned with.

So far they have lacked the ability to fuse sensors with the planes infrastructure, and write the complicated code that tallows the PAK to act like an F22 emulating a rivet joint.

They are making the choice of absolute maneuverability over absolute stealth- the exact opposite of an F22's compromises- smart. Its also bigger and carries more and has a longer range- well ....well see.

we also need to see sustained supercruise without afterburner etc.

This isnt a real plane yet, but they are getting there, and unlike the Chinese or the arabs- these guys know how to fly.

Good for us half their shit is pointed at china.



UD
 

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I have a 74 page .pdf file, in a presentation format on this aircraft (Unclassified). The first flight was over a year ago.

The best part is on slide 69, imo. Where you can see several US model mock ups, including the b-2, f-22, f-117, NASA research planes, the BQM-74 (i think) and other planes.

Here is the summary:

Implications of the Debut of PAK-FA
• Clearly the PAK-FA aircraft has been designed with a clear
understanding of the effects of low-observability on air
combat when both sides have such aircraft
• PAK-FA houses a large internal weapon bay:
– Larger internal carriage of LRAAMs and MRAAMs
– Up to eight R-77s and two R-74 AAMs
– Air-to-surface missile carriage for the ARMs, ASMs and ASMs
• Obviously, the combatants will be closer when their radar
sensors detect the other side, so close in fact that the Infra-
Red Scan and Track (IRST) might be the first sensor to detect
the presence of an enemy aircraft
– PAK-FA has IRST capability while the F-22A does not
• Extreme agility of the PAK-FA could in a ‘knife fight’ potentially
out-maneuver the F-22A in such an engagement
– Sukhoi has extensive experience in designing aircraft that operate
at high angles of attack (AoA) as demonstrated by various members
of the Su-27/-35 family
72

Here's another interesting slide:

Features of the Sukhoi T-50/PAK-FA
Seen on Russian Web Sites Since DEC 09
• Hope for 10-15% PAK-FA advantage over F-22 Raptor due to two decades of technology development
• F-22 Raptor detects Su-35 from the distance of 150-180 km but can open fire from 110 km, while becomes
visible for Su-35's radar by itself and on R-77 range of attack
• OLS-35 probably detects F-22 Raptor on 100 km distance
– OLS with 360 deg
• PAK-FA's AESA radar has probably 1,526 modules with overall power 18 KWt
– Range for a big air target – 400 (TWS/A = 60/16)
• Active antennas in the wings and tail are probable
• Backward attacking missiles
• Has up to 12 air-to-air missiles (if compact) in internal placement
• Two internal bays for WLRAAMs and LRAAMs up to 700 kg each + 2 bays for short range missiles
• While F-22 Raptor can have up to 8 missiles in the internal bays
• WLRAAM 'Izdelie 810' is MiG-31 R-33 derivative with range of 400 km
• LRAAM 'Izdelie-180PD' is air-breath R-77 derivative with a range of 250 km
• 'Izdelie-180' – solid-fuel R-77 derivative with a range of 110-140 km with active/passive radar and homing on
jammer
• Short range AAM – 'Izdelie-300' or K-MD IR matrix, double range of homing
• Kh-58UShKE internal weapon bay ARM and Kh-35 internal weapon bay ASM can be carried
• 500 kg guided and unguided bombs and/or sub-munition payloads
• Intra-fuselage catapults
– UVKU-50L – up to 300 kg; UVKU-50U – up to 700 kg.
• Internal bays total carry weight is 2,000 kg
• With + external hardpoints carry weight is 6,000 kg
• GSh-30 30 mm autocannon.
• According to the plans – 430 planes must be built for Russian Air Force
• Will replace 339 Su-27 and 300 MiG-31 fighters

Hey Ram, I got this from wiki too. (not)
 

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Unc, don’t be such an alarmist, our future is in building more prisons for the millions of upstanding illegal’s and thugs that are being propagated by the entitlement dolling out of the left…

MORE HANDOUTS, MORE HANDOUTS, MORE HANDOUTS, MORE ENTITLEMENTS that’s the future of our country… ;)
 

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I live near Luke AFB and often encounter personnel from our fighting forces. Not long ago, at Albertson's meat counter I spoke at length with a flight instructor nearing retirement who spoke of both China and Russia's Stealth fighters. He gave a rather detailed run down of their strong points just before reminding me that, given our current technology our newest flight school graduate could take their most experienced pilot out 95 out of 100 times. He then reminded me that our learning curve is so far ahead of theirs that we shouldn't lose much sleep thinking about their advancements. It wasn't arrogance as much as it was a deep rooted confidence in our military and I did, in fact sleep well that evening. :)
 

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I wouldn't worry about either country , They are 20 to 30 years behind the US technology
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Doesn't the JSF have IRST? Aren't we going to buy over 2000 of them?
Yes it does, or should say it can depending on how its ordered.

JSF will have a tough time establishing and holding a perimeter against another 5th gen air superiority fighter such as the typhoon.

Many doubt lockheeds claim of at least 3-1 kill expectation over all but the f-22 and PAK Fa


Not sure how many we are going to buy, or how well it will actually performa against other 5th gen offerings.
(To be clear Im talking about a dogfight- Im talking against guys with equal experience - not a long range missile standoff.
ie Us a against a Russian Veteran or a Euro/ brit vet - not one of our vets vs a classic poorly trained Arab )

Also known as why the F15 hasn't the highest combat loss ration in fighter history. Like 110-0 or something ridiculous wins and zero combat losses.



The JSF- is outmatched against the eurocanard and maybe a rafale in a dogfight, but not in stealth. (one could argue the most important factor- maybe)

The JSF - hasnt the thrust to weight of the twin engine offerings.
The JFS has no super cruise capability Im aware of.

JSF is an awesome aircraft, but wont go toe to toe with other 5th gen air dominance craft.

Itll be interesting when the guys in the eurocanards get to "play with" a pak and test is sustained angle of attack and its high alpha performance.

Of course 500-1000 of them being coordinated by a 100 f-22's acting as rivet joints could bring down an entire nations air force in one fell swoop.

Fun stuff boys and girls.

As the Doc mentions - in a dogfight and in general seat time on combat training or actual combat rules the day.



Uncle Dave
 

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Yes it does, or should say it can depending on how its ordered.

JSF will have a tough time establishing and holding a perimeter against another 5th gen air superiority fighter such as the typhoon.

Many doubt lockheeds claim of at least 3-1 kill expectation over all but the f-22 and PAK Fa


Not sure how many we are going to buy, or how well it will actually performa against other 5th gen offerings.
(To be clear Im talking about a dogfight- Im talking against guys with equal experience - not a long range missile standoff.
ie Us a against a Russian Veteran or a Euro/ brit vet - not one of our vets vs a classic poorly trained Arab )

Also known as why the F15 hasn't the highest combat loss ration in fighter history. Like 110-0 or something ridiculous wins and zero combat losses.



The JSF- is outmatched against the eurocanard and maybe a rafale in a dogfight, but not in stealth. (one could argue the most important factor- maybe)

The JSF - hasnt the thrust to weight of the twin engine offerings.
The JFS has no super cruise capability Im aware of.

JSF is an awesome aircraft, but wont go toe to toe with other 5th gen air dominance craft.

Itll be interesting when the guys in the eurocanards get to "play with" a pak and test is sustained angle of attack and its high alpha performance.

Of course 500-1000 of them being coordinated by a 100 f-22's acting as rivet joints could bring down an entire nations air force in one fell swoop.

Fun stuff boys and girls.

As the Doc mentions - in a dogfight and in general seat time on combat training or actual combat rules the day.



Uncle Dave
UD I agree but the single engine F-35 is a bit of a turkey to be fielding given the competition being developed by the enemy ,scary thing is how much of the technology has somehow been "Leaked".
 

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UD I agree but the single engine F-35 is a bit of a turkey to be fielding given the competition being developed by the enemy ,scary thing is how much of the technology has somehow been "Leaked".
More than likely it's not leaked... It's not hard to steal shapes and learn from them. Remember the F-117 that got shot down in Kosov? Russia and China were all over purchasing pieces of the aircraft from the farmers. From that, they got the materials we use on our planes.

The first photo, is RCS expectations of the F-22. The second is self explanation, it's in Russia. I'm most fond of the B-2 in the background.
 

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UD I agree but the single engine F-35 is a bit of a turkey to be fielding given the competition being developed by the enemy ,scary thing is how much of the technology has somehow been "Leaked".
This is something that drives me crazy....How the hell do the other countries get all of our info? One of the most obvious thefts is the computer tech theft by Japan; They are behind us by the amount of time it takes to take our computers and reverse engineer them....
 

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This is something that drives me crazy....How the hell do the other countries get all of our info? One of the most obvious thefts is the computer tech theft by Japan; They are behind us by the amount of time it takes to take our computers and reverse engineer them....
I have heard a couple things,one of which was ,Now this was a pair of Pilots talking, take the most advanced aircraft we have Now and the black programs have something 50 years ahead of that.

We have no friends really, Remember the Toshiba-
Kongsberg scandal and the face saving they had to do over here! to answer the question , they got the info from a defense contractor (who else would have it) and someone needs imprisoned for that!
 

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More than likely it's not leaked... It's not hard to steal shapes and learn from them. Remember the F-117 that got shot down in Kosov? Russia and China were all over purchasing pieces of the aircraft from the farmers. From that, they got the materials we use on our planes.

The first photo, is RCS expectations of the F-22. The second is self explanation, it's in Russia. I'm most fond of the B-2 in the background.
Hey thanks,Once they had the materials, a call to the suppliers would give the cure info on the Epoxies.
 
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