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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
A buddy was talking about how shaft mounted rockers are way better than studs. To me, they look better, but are they required? And if so, why?

Are they stronger?

More reliable?

Do they rev better?

When would a build require shafts over studs?

Can you switch from stud to shaft w/o modifying the heads?

Do you need different push rods if you switch?
 

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A buddy was talking about how shaft mounted rockers are way better than studs. To me, they look better, but are they required? And if so, why?

Are they stronger?

More reliable?

Do they rev better?

When would a build require shafts over studs?

Can you switch from stud to shaft w/o modifying the heads?

Do you need different push rods if you switch?
They are better. They will handle higher RPM better. They will usually hold a lash adjustment better, specially with heavy roller springs. Yes you will need different pushrods. almost always shorter, mainly due to the adjuster being in the rocker, and the pushrod seat is now lower.
The shaft setups tend to be head specific and do not require head mods, but that isn't gospel. The camshaft lift can require the stands or the heads to be machined. The better shaft systems manufactures have it down pretty damn good and make lots of different stand heights for different applications.

I can't answer when. I simply stopped using stud rockers long ago. But I see no reason why something that isn't running a solid roller with at least .700 lift would need them.
Think about how a stud rocker lash is set. Now ask yourself, if it was a shaft rocker, would you accept .025-.030 clearence between the rocker bearing and the shaft? Can you see it? Think about it.

Stud rockers are like little jackhammers. If you think they aren't, see what happens to the adjuster if you ever install a stud roller rocker with the trunnion upside with the round part of the trunnion shaft facing up instead of the machined flat area the adjuster is suppose to sit on.



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Discussion Starter #3
Ok, that makes sense. So on a build that sees 5200-5500 w a mild cam probably could get away w studs, but spinning past 6k, shafts should be used?

Any idea what the difference in cost is between the two?


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Ok, that makes sense. So on a build that sees 5200-5500 w a mild cam probably could get away w studs, but spinning past 6k, shafts should be used?

Any idea what the difference in cost is between the two?


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I would say more like approaching 7000, but thats just me.
If you taking just stud rockers, your taling 3 times as much to buy shaft setup.

BUT.. If you talking rockers, studs, guide plates and a gurdle, the price gets alot closer. With a shaft system you don't need all that crap. So if your buying bear heads, and most intelligent builders that are building a motor that requires shaft systems do, then its the price differnce of all the crap VS a stud sytem.



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I had to spend 300.00 to machine my Brodix BB4 Xtra heads to accept the T & D system. You would think that a high dollar set of heads from Brodix would accept anybodys' rocker system. I could have done it myself but the R/L tilt on my mill is in need of repair.
 

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I had to spend 300.00 to machine my Brodix BB4 Xtra heads to accept the T & D system. You would think that a high dollar set of heads from Brodix would accept anybodys' rocker system. I could have done it myself but the R/L tilt on my mill is in need of repair.
BB4 are bastard heads, but you would think TD would know what you need. But then, those heads may just demand machining. Brodix heads are unbelievable when it comes to shaft rockers. Seems like every series requires its own setup.



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a buddy was talking about how shaft mounted rockers are way better than studs. To me, they look better, but are they required? And if so, why?

Are they stronger?

More reliable?

Do they rev better?

When would a build require shafts over studs?

Can you switch from stud to shaft w/o modifying the heads?

Do you need different push rods if you switch?
sometimes,no,no,big chief heads,no,probably
 

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I would say more like approaching 7000, but thats just me.
If you taking just stud rockers, your taling 3 times as much to buy shaft setup.

BUT.. If you talking rockers, studs, guide plates and a gurdle, the price gets alot closer. With a shaft system you don't need all that crap. So if your buying bear heads, and most intelligent builders that are building a motor that requires shaft systems do, then its the price differnce of all the crap VS a stud sytem.
i THINK THEY ARE MORE THAN THREE TIMES AS MUCH.. rockers with stands bolts etc..T&D???CROWERS??? for big chief heads $$$$$$$
 

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Ok, that makes sense. So on a build that sees 5200-5500 w a mild cam probably could get away w studs, but spinning past 6k, shafts should be used?

Any idea what the difference in cost is between the two?


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I would say over 7500 rpm, I had more luck with the std. stuff, but then thats before I went to almost all big chief heads on my pro stock engines with big spring pressure. real pain in the ass.
 

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i THINK THEY ARE MORE THAN THREE TIMES AS MUCH.. rockers with stands bolts etc..T&D???CROWERS??? for big chief heads $$$$$$$
Yeah, way more if your buying Procomp rockers studs and guide plates.
I was refering to a real stud riocker, not Proforms. If your going to make any comparison between the two, it isn't fair to use a $200 stud rocker to a TD rocker, forgetting the shaft. Aside from Procomp's crap shaft rocker, the rockers used by the shaft guys is usually a pretty decent rocker. Wish you could say that about 1/2 the stud rockers. Know anybody that ever ran a set of Comp Cams red alum stud rockers? There is some serious junk stud rockers out there.

Lets look at the cost all prices out of summit catalog
Crower rockers (lets keep like for like her) 490.00
Studs ARP Dart Pro 1 heads 118.00
Guide plates Comp Cams(Dart's chioice) 42.00 or dart adj 50.00
Stud Gurdle Dart 354.00
total 1004.00

Crower shaft rocker 1368.00 or 1376.00

Now if your comfortable spinning something 7500 with Proform or Procomp rockers, guide plates and studs to make the price look bigger, fine. I'm won't and I would never suggest some else should either.



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A buddy was talking about how shaft mounted rockers are way better than studs. To me, they look better, but are they required? And if so, why?

Are they stronger?

More reliable?

Do they rev better?

When would a build require shafts over studs?

Can you switch from stud to shaft w/o modifying the heads?

Do you need different push rods if you switch?
On our 588 build we went with the T&D shaft setup. this motor may only see 6200 max...was it overkill? maybe..but I think it was worth the extra bucks (not much more considering if you went with guide plates, rockers, studs,the price was close once you added it up) if your already spending $1000 dollars on valve train, whats another $200 more to have a shaft setup? as for modifying the heads..my setup will show up today, then it's off to Foxwell Motorsports then we'll know if we need any mods..
 

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Yeah, way more if your buying Procomp rockers studs and guide plates.
I was refering to a real stud riocker, not Proforms. If your going to make any comparison between the two, it isn't fair to use a $200 stud rocker to a TD rocker, forgetting the shaft. Aside from Procomp's crap shaft rocker, the rockers used by the shaft guys is usually a pretty decent rocker. Wish you could say that about 1/2 the stud rockers. Know anybody that ever ran a set of Comp Cams red alum stud rockers? There is some serious junk stud rockers out there.

Lets look at the cost all prices out of summit catalog
Crower rockers (lets keep like for like her) 490.00
Studs ARP Dart Pro 1 heads 118.00
Guide plates Comp Cams(Dart's chioice) 42.00 or dart adj 50.00
Stud Gurdle Dart 354.00
total 1004.00

Crower shaft rocker 1368.00 or 1376.00

Now if your comfortable spinning something 7500 with Proform or Procomp rockers, guide plates and studs to make the price look bigger, fine. I'm won't and I would never suggest some else should either.
you forgot about the machine work. What the hell are Proform rockers? For a 5200 rpm motor you could use almost anything. I like the crower S/S rockers ( a little heavy but good)and stud gurdle for std chev head but thats just me and what the hell do I know.
 

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On my 621 twin turbo build, I felt the same way about the extra cost. The Brodix heads weren't clearanced enough for the T&D trunions so I had some extra material taken off where necessary to eliminate using the shims to get the proper geometry. Barry must of had those heads on and off a dozen times before final assembly!
 

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mine did

On our 588 build we went with the T&D shaft setup. this motor may only see 6700 max...was it overkill? maybe..but I think it was worth the extra bucks (not much more considering if you went with guide plates, rockers, studs,the price was close once you added it up) if your already spending $1000 dollars on valve train, whats another $200 more to have a shaft setup? as for modifying the heads..my setup will show up today, then it's off to Foxwell Motorsports then we'll know if we need any mods..
mine had to be machined to accept the T&D's.
 

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you forgot about the machine work. What the hell are Proform rockers? For a 5200 rpm motor you could use almost anything. I like the crower S/S rockers ( a little heavy but good)and stud gurdle for std chev head but thats just me and what the hell do I know.
I see were back to 5200 rpm hydraulic cammed motors. You're 100% correct Jim. But then, at 5200 I am not so sure the stock sled balls won't live.



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On our 588 build we went with the T&D shaft setup. this motor may only see 6700 max...was it overkill? maybe..but I think it was worth the extra bucks (not much more considering if you went with guide plates, rockers, studs,the price was close once you added it up) if your already spending $1000 dollars on valve train, whats another $200 more to have a shaft setup? as for modifying the heads..my setup will show up today, then it's off to Foxwell Motorsports then we'll know if we need any mods..
6,700? Everybody.......save your watches sh*ts getting thick! I thought most 26 daytona's are doing over a 100mph by 5500?

BTW Im just jealous of the T&D set up.
 

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I think he plans on doing some drag racing and he geared it down:D
Originally Posted by whiskeybent hondo
6,700? Everybody.......save your watches sh*ts getting thick! I thought most 26 daytona's are doing over a 100mph by 5500?

BTW Im just jealous of the T&D set up.


you guys and your little boats :54:...when this motor build came up it was deceided that we would not turn it in excess of 6700 rpm ..so yes little e..this motor can turn it up that far..
btw..26 Daytona at 5500 rpm does only about a bit over 80...Not 100mph, unless your turning 1200 hp with a 1:24 gear:D
 
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