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Resident Ford Nut
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
It's about time but...............the economy sucks so this has taken longer .....way longer than I thought possable:

Not sure when it's going to hit the dyno but hopefully before August is over:

Engine being done by Greg at Total Performance in Santee. Most of it anyway (long block) and I'm going to bolt the other crap on..........................I think, we'll see:



I'm still not sure how you send a piston company a sample of what you want ( marked-up) and they make the piston wrong.......twice:





Greg had to re-cut the pistons finally got .085" on the intake with great radial clearance, it was way to close before with the 2.40" Ti-intake. We both feel way better about it now.

Piston finally correct and in at zero deck:



With the 66cc chamber the final compression ratio is 13:1 with a .045 head gasket ( not a pump gas deal) at least not this year:






Fresh bore at 4.606" , new big old slugs for pistons,......... now kind of wish I'd gone with CP's but the pistons are vertical gas ported with a .043, 1/16th, 3/16th ring pack:






I'll post a few more pics later:

Trying something new with the rings. I've used Total Seal zero gaps for years..1993 or 1991, the rings in this are from Akerly and Childs with a Tool Steel top ring. They are supposed to be damn near industructable....Nitrous, blown applications. The .043" ring with the gas porting is supposed to work very well. We shall see.

Same old Crower custom roller cam ( Danny Crower) from year 2000.
278/285 @ .050, lobe sep is 113*, lobe lift at .433/.438
cam installed at 4* advanced, 109* intake centerline

So fresh bore, fresh ground crank (.020), new rings, new 13:1 pistons, same single intake, and 1,200 Pro System carb. It should do a bit more than the last time it was dyno'd in 2007 when it made 935hp at 7,000 and 765 lbs ft at 6,000 with a 1,050. I'm looking more for 800 lbs ft at 6,200 than I'm looking for top end power at 7,000- 7,200. But 730 lbs ft at 7,200 makes for a nice round number....... just don't know if it will carry the trq that high :)bulb

I'm thinking 800 lbs ft +/- at 6,200 and 985 hp +/- at 7,000 is a nice goal. We shall see.

Stay tuned.

Specs:

4.606 bore x 4.25 stroke = 565 actually 567"
A-460 Block
Crower/Ford Motorsport crank 4.25 stroke ( .020 under)
Crower rods w/ BBC journal 6.536"
Modified A-460 heads flow 450 cfm at .750 lift ( 2.40 ti intake)
Crower Roller cam (Danny Crower) 278/285 @ .050 with .433 lobe lift
T&D Shaft rockers 1.8 ratio
Manton Push rods.
Arias pistons, gas ported
Akerly & Childs ring pack .043, 1/16th, 3/16th with a Tool Steel top ring
Stephs oil pan w/ kick out
Kaase oil pump
Pro System 1,200 cfm carb
MSD crank trigger and all that stuff...............

That's most of the good stuff.


S CP

Big Inch Ford Lover :)grn
 

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Resident Ford Nut
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10,075 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Saving space for a few more pics tomorrow:

Aug 21st progress pics:

I think I got the correct parts in the right place....but who the hell knows:




Hummmmm: Maybe just maybe.



S CP :D
 

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SIZE DOES MATTER
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52 Posts
Fresh bore at 4.606" , new big old slugs for pistons,......... now kind of wish I'd gone with CP's but the pistons are vertical gas ported with a .043, 1/16th, 3/16th ring pack:








S CP

Big Inch Ford Lover :)grn

I believe you meant horizontal gas ported.

Looks good. Nice to see a Ford build for a change.
 

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Resident Ford Nut
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Discussion Starter #5
I believe you meant horizontal gas ported.

Looks good. Nice to see a Ford build for a change.

Good catch....I'm just the idiot who pays for it ;)

Actually meant to type "lateral gas port" I was surprised when I read it again. :)bulb sometimes the brain doesn't work to well. ...happens more and more now...I'm going to be a mess by the time I'm 60 is this keeps up.

S CP :D
 

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steelcomp was here
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26,512 Posts
Good catch....I'm just the idiot who pays for it ;)

Actually meant to type "lateral gas port" I was surprised when I read it again. :)bulb sometimes the brain doesn't work to well. ...happens more and more now...I'm going to be a mess by the time I'm 60 is this keeps up.

S CP :D
Hey, those aren't Dimonds are they?
This is really looking good. You've been wearing this thing out for years. I imagine it feels good to be putting it all back together with nice new parts. I wish my BBF project was coming along that well.:)sphss
Keep the updates coming.
 

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steelcomp was here
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26,512 Posts
Hey, those aren't Dimonds are they?
This is really looking good. You've been wearing this thing out for years. I imagine it feels good to be putting it all back together with nice new parts. I wish my BBF project was coming along that well.:)sphss
Keep the updates coming.
Never mind...just saw they were Arias. Interesting choice.:)bulb
 

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steelcomp was here
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26,512 Posts
ON rings...I used a TS AP stainless gapless top on Nelson's engine. Never again. What a PITA to install for I'm not sure how much real benefit. Next build like that will get a conventional (non-gapless) ring.
JMO:)hand
 

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www.highflowdynamics.com
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1,161 Posts
Looking good, Jon. That's a pretty old A460 block, probably an E8Z casting, right? I have one of those among my A blocks, and it's still at undersize-standard bore. :) It will go straight to 4.500" for a project of my own. Have you sonic checked it at 4.600"?

LO
 

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Bostick Racing Engines
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1,063 Posts
Never mind...just saw they were Arias. Interesting choice.:)bulb


Greg is a big fan of Arias pistons... every engine that I have been into that he has done or been involved with had Arias in them. Only thing I could think of is either he gets a smokes deal on them, or likes old school forging technology. I guess if he likes 'em and has good luck with them, then guess they are peachy. Personally, I have had the best luck with JE and CP.

Most important thing though... as far as this thread is concernered... if they end up, no matter how much effort was put into modifying them, working out good for Sleeper... then bitchen.


BTW... Jon... how much clearance you guys end up setting that up with using those pistons? Just curious.
 

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Resident Ford Nut
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Discussion Starter #11
ended-up with .007 piston to wall, just about .006 less than before the rebuild ;)

Pistons ended up being Arias because the old pistons were, it was basically the same slug that we marked-up, and they still screwed it up...twice. I told Greg to use either CP or Arias I didn't care which......he decided on the Arias because of time (which ended up not mattering after all) next build I do I'll more than likely go with CP's ( maybe a pump gas 582"). Greg liked this pistons for endurance and nitrous use as opposed to using a lite piston. Hopefully it will do the job.....the old ones did for years. So hopefully I'm not giving up much if anything at all :)bulb

S CP :D
 

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Resident Ford Nut
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Discussion Starter #12
Looking good, Jon. That's a pretty old A460 block, probably an E8Z casting, right? I have one of those among my A blocks, and it's still at undersize-standard bore. :) It will go straight to 4.500" for a project of my own. Have you sonic checked it at 4.600"?

LO
That block is from 1993....same bore of 4.60 for years. Even after all the hone jobs it actually cleaned up on all cylinders at 4.605". It was taken out to 4.606...lots of meat left.

S CP :D
 

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Bostick Racing Engines
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ended-up with .007 piston to wall, just about .006 less than before the rebuild ;)

Pistons ended up being Arias because the old pistons were, it was basically the same slug that we marked-up, and they still screwed it up...twice. I told Greg to use either CP or Arias I didn't care which......he decided on the Arias because of time (which ended up not mattering after all) next build I do I'll more than likely go with CP's ( maybe a pump gas 582"). Greg liked this pistons for endurance and nitrous use as opposed to using a lite piston. Hopefully it will do the job.....the old ones did for years. So hopefully I'm not giving up much if anything at all :)bulb

S CP :D
They must be using a different alloy these days... last time I bought a new set of Arias... which is about 12-14 years ago... they were a 4.280 bore and had .010 clearance built in 'em... kinda like Ross.
 

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CANT RE MEMBER
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Good catch....I'm just the idiot who pays for it ;)

Actually meant to type "lateral gas port" I was surprised when I read it again. :)bulb sometimes the brain doesn't work to well. ...happens more and more now...I'm going to be a mess by the time I'm 60 is this keeps up.

S CP :D

Damn kids, and there motors with the dist. on the wrong end.
:)bulbJust gotta pick on us old guys
 

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Not a gas port guru, but. It seems from the picks that the ring is pretty far down. Curious about the preasure effect of running it higher. I know nitrous spec. piston ring grooves are usually far down and recomended by piston companies. But WITH gas ports. Also, friction grooves on 13 to 1 nitrous pistons? If you could ask your builder why these choices were made, I would like to know. Just want to learn something. Or if anyone else has somthing to say about these topics.
 

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Resident Ford Nut
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Not a gas port guru, but. It seems from the picks that the ring is pretty far down. Curious about the preasure effect of running it higher. I know nitrous spec. piston ring grooves are usually far down and recomended by piston companies. But WITH gas ports. Also, friction grooves on 13 to 1 nitrous pistons? If you could ask your builder why these choices were made, I would like to know. Just want to learn something. Or if anyone else has somthing to say about these topics.
Why wouldn't I want friction reduction grooves on 13:1 pistons? Is there a limit and have I exceeded it ?

Running the top ring as far down as before, mentioned to Arias that we were thinking of running a .043 tool steel top ring and asked what they thought about lateral gas ports with the recessed top ring and nitrous...they had done them before with good results.


4th page:
http://www.jepistons.com/PDFs/TechCorner/SCPDrawings/JE_Piston_terminology_and_features.pdf

S CP
 

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Premium Member
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Awesome Jon- Not a ford guy myself but interesting to see something other than the King of motors being built! I would like to see it go & being in an open bow CP that is just awesome!
 

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They must be using a different alloy these days... last time I bought a new set of Arias... which is about 12-14 years ago... they were a 4.280 bore and had .010 clearance built in 'em... kinda like Ross.
Last set of Arias I ran called for .012 in a blown deal at 4.310. Its not a different alloy, its a different cam and barrel shape designed into the shirt



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Last set of Arias I ran called for .012 in a blown deal at 4.310. Its not a different alloy, its a different cam and barrel shape designed into the shirt
I didn't know shirts came with cam and barrel design, would like to see that some time. Most all race pistons are 2618 t61, but most of them do not require that much clearance. Companies like Ross and Arias are somewhat limited on skirt design. Eccentric shapes available TODAY allow for reduced harmonics in the bore and do not require excessive clearance when designed properly. .012 thousandths sounds a bit extreme. Maybe they tell you to put that much clearance because they dont want you stick a piston when you miss the tune up. :)hand
 

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Just thinking of end gasses, accumulation of gasses vs. surface area of the grooves. The effect that might have on the gas porting. Seems like they are a bunch of accumulator grooves. Also, I and a few others tend to want a hearty crown with the bmep numbers this thing is likely to generate (no grooves). Big thermal numbers also. I dont know the make-up of this forging but it may be out of necessity that the ring be this far down, dish included. I dont know the limits, I dont know about 13 to 1 nitrous motors. Just looking for more answers, not more questions. Whos up to it or should this be another start thread?
 
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