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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There have been threads on this topic before about having "certificates, futures, bonds," whatever on gold. Many of you simply don't seem to get the message that paper can be as worthless as the ink on the paper and the stroke of a pen by the POTUS. You gold can be their gold faster than the ink can dry on a E.O. And we all know how much this asswipe loves E.O.s and just how powerfull he thinks he is, or how powerfull the senate and congress have ALLOWED him to be. He walks in the footsteps of ALL POWERFULL POTUSs before him.

Ask yourself, " are we in a state of national emergency" today? How many years since 1929 has the U.S. of A. NOT been in a state of emergency? The answer if you bother to look it up will scare the shit out of you. One of the easiest things for a POTUS to do s calim a state of national emergency, and it lasts until it EXPIRES, not until the so call emergency is "over".
Consider the fact that the government was NOT interested in Federal Reserve issued gold certificates. They were now simply Fed Notes. United States Treasury certificates of GOLD deposite, that another matter. They DEMANDED that you surrender or at least SPEND your US bills, so they would be surrendered by someone else, and ALL evendually end up in the hands thru the banks. They REPLACED them with, YOU GUESSED IT, Federal Reserve Gold Notes. WTF? Somehow thats different? You bet your ass its different. The Federal Reserve Notes said right on them PAYABLE ON DEMAND IN GOLD. How could they be payable on demand in GOLD if owning gold is outlawed. Think ANYBODY ever saw gold from those Fed Reserve Notes?
Look at the fine and imprisonment for defying the law. A car cost around 1000.00 at the time. What would the fine be today, and WHAT would they use to collect it?
All it takes is a signature, and its law, and YOUR paper gold, is their gold.

Remember, this was done by a POTUS that was seen as god like. He was worshipped, and some alive today still believe he was the greastest POTUS ever. Sound familar?




The Gold Confiscation Of April 5, 1933
From: President of the United States Franklin Delano Roosevelt
To: The United States Congress
Dated: 5 April, 1933
Presidential Executive Order 6102
Forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled

An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes~',

in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists,

I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section to do hereby prohibit the hoarding gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of the order:

Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term 'hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a),(b) or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin, gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon.

Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Section 2 or 3, the Federal reserve bank or member bank will pay thereof an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the Unites States.

Section 5. Member banks shall deliver alt gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal reserve banks of there respective districts and receive credit or payment thereof.

Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9, 1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal reserve bank in accordance with Sections 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal reserve banks.

Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath; addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal reserve bank. Each applications must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty.

Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry the purposes of this order and to issue licenses there under, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal reserve banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin or bullion to or for persons showing the need for same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c), and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations.

Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or these regulation or of any rule, regulation or license issued there under may be fined not more than $10,000, or,if a natural person may be imprisoned for not more than ten years or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.

This order and these regulations may be modified or revoked at any time.
/s/
Franklin D. Roosevelt
President of the United States of America
April 5, 1933








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Ask Germany how the Fed holding their gold is working out.
Germany wanted it back... the Fed basically said....' uh, yes... .of course we have it.... sure it is safe... you want all of it??.... how about just 5%... we can get that 5% back to you in 7 years...'
Imagine going to your atm and wanting your money and being told... um... yea... in 7 years we will have it.
Wags

Translation... if you own paper gold you are a fool. Sorry...
 

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"(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license
."



How does that ^^^ fit with my plan of holding SMALL denominations of physical mini bullion ingots??? :D

There is a method to my madness... I always look before I leap... :)grn

The mini ingots are so small that they are small denominations equal to a $50 / $100 bill... (at current melt prices) and are sealed/certified by assayer...
 

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Paper gold

Now there is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Heres how that computes in a value equation.

"Paper Gold" = Paper

Also computes this way ...."Paper Gold"= Nothing

Kind of like "Government integrity" (substitute integrity with - intelligence, efficiency, or in many but not all cases "worker")

2MM's mini ingots are supremely cool.

UD
 

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Now there is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Heres how that computes in a value equation.

"Paper Gold" = Paper

Also computes this way ...."Paper Gold"= Nothing

Kind of like "Government integrity" (substitute integrity with - intelligence, efficiency, or in many but not all cases "worker")

2MM's mini ingots are supremely cool.

UD
Uncle Dave's collection is supremely cool... :))THumbsUp:))THumbsUp:))THumbsUp
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The mini ingots are so small that they are small denominations equal to a $50 / $100 bill... (at current melt prices) and are sealed/certified by assayer...
IMO any gold you are holding is kind of like your guns. You don't have it. Lost, stolen, sold, whatever, but you don't have it.
Now there is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Heres how that computes in a value equation.

"Paper Gold" = Paper

Also computes this way ...."Paper Gold"= Nothing

Kind of like "Government integrity" (substitute integrity with - intelligence, efficiency, or in many but not all cases "worker")

2MM's mini ingots are supremely cool.


Thats why I posted this. Some HERE seem to be of the opinion that SOME paper gold is fine, and other is not so fine.

I guess thats like when FDR's EO was written, U.S. Gold Certificates of deposits were some how better than Federal Reserve Gold NOTES which were considered "bearer bonds" for gold. Guess the Fed had other ideas..

SOOOOOO, the EO claims it was done to save the banking industry. In reality, does anybody know the REAL reason FDR HAD NO CHOICE but to call back all the gold AND the Certificates of deposite. Which were backed bygold in Fort Knox, as opposed to gold that the fed was holding.
UD


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IMO any gold you are holding is kind of like your guns. You don't have it. Lost, stolen, sold, whatever, but you don't have it.
What guns?


I never said I had any mini ingots, I said it was just a theory... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
The reason FDR pretty much had to do that was that the Fed was holding the U.S. gov's feet to the fire on a shit load of T bills that were payable ONLY in gold. First stupid move was selling the Fed T bills with that stipulation in them. I have no doubt that was a demand of the Fed for the loans. Prbably because the Fed knew it had the gov over the barrel, and that the US was in pretty sad shape at the time. The gov SHOULD have just allowed the country to work its way out of the problem, but you know governments. They think they have the cure. Plus, they had assured everyone that the reason for the Fed back in 1913 was to smooth out the ups and downs. It was a collosal lie.

So, the governent need to transfer gold from FT KNOX to the Fed, but most of the gold was accounted for in Certifs of Deposit. Thats against the constitution, so instead, they called the gold back and let the Fed replace the Certifs of deposit with Fed Reserve Notes, which is where the gold would be. Except the Fed had no intentions of allowing anybody demanding gold for the notes, so they outlawed the ownership of gold. Now you could only own gold that the Fed said it was holding to cover your "notes". And, unlike the Treasury, the FED can issue money in a ratio to the gold on hand. The treasury cannot do that constitutionally. the Fed is NOT under the constitution.
The ratio of NOTES to gold with the Fed and its branches has made huge changes thru the years. All so that the US gov can increase its debt. Where the ratio in 1933 was somethng like 2 or 3 to one, today its in the hundreds. Now you know why it takes so many US $ to buy an ounce of gold. And why a car is no longer 1000.00
Bottom line, FDR is the first, and only president to make owning REAL money, as defined by the consttitution, and made law that said Fed Notes were the ONLY legal tender.

FDR ordered the printing of $1.00 silver certifs, which was the ONLY non FED bills since FDR. He later caught a bullet or 2 in the head. Lincoln sidestepped the Central Bank and printed US Fiat money which is 100% totally illegal, but he figured it didn't much matter. If he didn't the country would be lost. So he broke constitutional law and printed unbacked US Treasury "currency". The gov bought them all back with REAL certifs after the war. That little trick of printing money instead of "borrowing it" from the Central Bank was a no no. He had soem balls. He to caught a bullet to the head.



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