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Come on Repukes admit it, Big Al gets it and you don't! :)hand

Published on Saturday, December 13, 2008 by Inter Press Service Climate Change: 'Things Happen Much Faster in the Arctic'

by Stephen Leahy

QUEBEC CITY, Canada - In just a few summers from now, the Arctic Ocean will lose its protective cover of ice for the first time in a million years, according to some experts attending the International Arctic Change conference here.
The Canadian research icebreaker, the Amundsen, in the Arctic Ocean is the leader of a 40-million-dollar ice research project. Scientists expected the Amundsen to be frozen in place for many months during the harsh Arctic winter, when there is no sunlight and temperatures plunge to -50 degrees C. Instead the ship stayed mobile as the normally impenetrable ice was thin and weak.
A summer ice-free Arctic wasn't due for another 50 to 70 years under the worst-case climate change scenarios examined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).'Things are happening much faster in the Arctic. I think it will be summer ice-free by 2015,' said David Barber, an Arctic climatologist at the University of Manitoba.
Such a 'dramatic and serious loss of sea ice will affect everyone on the planet,' Barber told IPS.
Barber spent much of last winter on a Canadian research icebreaker, the Amundsen, in the Arctic Ocean as leader of a 40-million-dollar ice research project. Scientists expected the Amundsen to be frozen in place for many months during the harsh Arctic winter, when there is no sunlight and temperatures plunge to -50 degrees C. Instead the ship stayed mobile as the normally impenetrable ice was thin and weak.
'The ocean held a lot heat from the summer of 2007 when ice reached its record-breaking minimum,' Barber said.
That additional heat delayed the formation of winter ice by two months in some places. It also resulted in more storms, windier conditions and much more snow, he said. These are entirely new conditions for the region, noting that the additional snow acts as an insulator, keeping the sea ice warmer which prevents it from becoming thicker.
And if the winter ice cover is thin, then it will melt faster and over a larger area in summer, opening up more water to the heat of the sun in what is called a positive feedback loop.
By May of this year there was open water many weeks ahead of normal, exposing the cold water to heat of the sun earlier than ever, Barber said.
During summer 2007, the polar ice cap lost 30 percent to 40 percent of its ice, a record 2.6 million square kilometres less ice than the summer average minimum. The 2008 summer ice loss did not challenge 2007 for the record but was still much less than the average. Scientists believe the remaining ice was thinner than normal, setting the stage for another major melt in 2009.
Ice ruled the Arctic for a long time, but that is changing with the opening up of areas of the ocean that have never been exposed to sunlight, said Kevin Arrigo, a marine biologist at Stanford University.
Sunlight means life and Arrigo and colleagues have measured an astonishing 300 percent increase in growth of phytoplankton in parts of the Arctic Ocean. 'There has been a big change in the carbon cycle even though most thought the Arctic system was too nutrient limited,' Arrigo told conference attendees.
Phytoplankton are microscopic green plants which operate in the top 100 to 200 metres of the ocean and they need nutrients such as phosphorus, nitrogen, iron and silicon at the surface. It turns out that all the Arctic needed is more sunlight to switch to a more productive ocean.
Phytoplankton also remove large amounts of carbon from the upper ocean. Arrigo estimates that the increased amounts of phytoplankton may take 14 gigatonnes of additional carbon out of the Arctic system every year.
'If this continues we're going to see huge changes in the Arctic ecosystem,' he said.
It will be of little benefit in reducing atmospheric carbon levels since that is less than 1 percent of the annual emissions from burning fossil fuels.
The effects of the summer warming large parts of the once-permanent frozen Arctic ocean ice is felt as far as 1,500 km inland, according to a study led by David Lawrence at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado.
Using computer models, they found that the rapid ice loss in summer showed a 3.5-fold acceleration in land surface temperatures in the Western Arctic likely triggering a rapid degradation in permafrost. And that the warming extends up to 1,500 km inland from the ocean itself.
Permafrost is largely permanently frozen peatlands that cover much of the northern areas of Canada, Alaska and Russia. They contain more than twice the amount of carbon currently in the atmosphere, based on a new study published in September by Ted Schuur, an ecologist at the University of Florida.
Burning of fossil fuels contributes about 8.5 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide each year, but the permafrost holds more than 1,670 billion tonnes. 'It's bigger than we thought,' Schuur said in a release.
He estimates that thawing permafrost could add 0.8 to 1.1 billion tonnes per year in the future -- almost as much as deforestation currently adds. Ominously, carbon from melting permafrost is not included in climate models.
There is now an Arctic network of specialists who are carefully monitoring permafrost temperatures thanks to funding from the International Polar Year global research effort, Nikolay Shiklomanov, a permafrost researcher at the University of Delaware, told participants. Hundreds of holes are being drilled in the permafrost regions and new low-cost temperature measuring equipment will be in place in some, providing an avalanche of data.
Unfortunately, in countries such as Canada, there is little historical data nor were there many measurement stations. Data from Alaska and Siberia goes back more than 20 years, and both have found large temperature increases at the southern parts of their respective permafrost regions. And the warming has been measured 30 or 40 meters deep, said Shiklomanov.
The Arctic ecosystem is likely shifting into a new regime, said Paul Wassmann, an oceanographer at University of Tromso, Norway
'Data and information from the past are unreliable indicators for what will happen in the future,' Wassmann said.
The Arctic ecosystem will never return to what it once was. And is true for all of the Earth's ecosystems, he said.
'The human thumb is pressing the globe, and pressing hardest on the North,' Wassmann said.






http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/13-1
 

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Come on Repukes admit it, Big Al gets it and you don't! :)hand

Published on Saturday, December 13, 2008 by Inter Press Service Climate Change: 'Things Happen Much Faster in the Arctic'

by Stephen Leahy

QUEBEC CITY, Canada - In just a few summers from now, the Arctic Ocean will lose its protective cover of ice for the first time in a million years, according to some experts attending the International Arctic Change conference here.
The Canadian research icebreaker, the Amundsen, in the Arctic Ocean is the leader of a 40-million-dollar ice research project. Scientists expected the Amundsen to be frozen in place for many months during the harsh Arctic winter, when there is no sunlight and temperatures plunge to -50 degrees C. Instead the ship stayed mobile as the normally impenetrable ice was thin and weak.
A summer ice-free Arctic wasn't due for another 50 to 70 years under the worst-case climate change scenarios examined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).'Things are happening much faster in the Arctic. I think it will be summer ice-free by 2015,' said David Barber, an Arctic climatologist at the University of Manitoba.
Such a 'dramatic and serious loss of sea ice will affect everyone on the planet,' Barber told IPS.
Barber spent much of last winter on a Canadian research icebreaker, the Amundsen, in the Arctic Ocean as leader of a 40-million-dollar ice research project. Scientists expected the Amundsen to be frozen in place for many months during the harsh Arctic winter, when there is no sunlight and temperatures plunge to -50 degrees C. Instead the ship stayed mobile as the normally impenetrable ice was thin and weak.
'The ocean held a lot heat from the summer of 2007 when ice reached its record-breaking minimum,' Barber said.
That additional heat delayed the formation of winter ice by two months in some places. It also resulted in more storms, windier conditions and much more snow, he said. These are entirely new conditions for the region, noting that the additional snow acts as an insulator, keeping the sea ice warmer which prevents it from becoming thicker.
And if the winter ice cover is thin, then it will melt faster and over a larger area in summer, opening up more water to the heat of the sun in what is called a positive feedback loop.
By May of this year there was open water many weeks ahead of normal, exposing the cold water to heat of the sun earlier than ever, Barber said.
During summer 2007, the polar ice cap lost 30 percent to 40 percent of its ice, a record 2.6 million square kilometres less ice than the summer average minimum. The 2008 summer ice loss did not challenge 2007 for the record but was still much less than the average. Scientists believe the remaining ice was thinner than normal, setting the stage for another major melt in 2009.
Ice ruled the Arctic for a long time, but that is changing with the opening up of areas of the ocean that have never been exposed to sunlight, said Kevin Arrigo, a marine biologist at Stanford University.
Sunlight means life and Arrigo and colleagues have measured an astonishing 300 percent increase in growth of phytoplankton in parts of the Arctic Ocean. 'There has been a big change in the carbon cycle even though most thought the Arctic system was too nutrient limited,' Arrigo told conference attendees.
Phytoplankton are microscopic green plants which operate in the top 100 to 200 metres of the ocean and they need nutrients such as phosphorus, nitrogen, iron and silicon at the surface. It turns out that all the Arctic needed is more sunlight to switch to a more productive ocean.
Phytoplankton also remove large amounts of carbon from the upper ocean. Arrigo estimates that the increased amounts of phytoplankton may take 14 gigatonnes of additional carbon out of the Arctic system every year.
'If this continues we're going to see huge changes in the Arctic ecosystem,' he said.
It will be of little benefit in reducing atmospheric carbon levels since that is less than 1 percent of the annual emissions from burning fossil fuels.
The effects of the summer warming large parts of the once-permanent frozen Arctic ocean ice is felt as far as 1,500 km inland, according to a study led by David Lawrence at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado.
Using computer models, they found that the rapid ice loss in summer showed a 3.5-fold acceleration in land surface temperatures in the Western Arctic likely triggering a rapid degradation in permafrost. And that the warming extends up to 1,500 km inland from the ocean itself.
Permafrost is largely permanently frozen peatlands that cover much of the northern areas of Canada, Alaska and Russia. They contain more than twice the amount of carbon currently in the atmosphere, based on a new study published in September by Ted Schuur, an ecologist at the University of Florida.
Burning of fossil fuels contributes about 8.5 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide each year, but the permafrost holds more than 1,670 billion tonnes. 'It's bigger than we thought,' Schuur said in a release.
He estimates that thawing permafrost could add 0.8 to 1.1 billion tonnes per year in the future -- almost as much as deforestation currently adds. Ominously, carbon from melting permafrost is not included in climate models.
There is now an Arctic network of specialists who are carefully monitoring permafrost temperatures thanks to funding from the International Polar Year global research effort, Nikolay Shiklomanov, a permafrost researcher at the University of Delaware, told participants. Hundreds of holes are being drilled in the permafrost regions and new low-cost temperature measuring equipment will be in place in some, providing an avalanche of data.
Unfortunately, in countries such as Canada, there is little historical data nor were there many measurement stations. Data from Alaska and Siberia goes back more than 20 years, and both have found large temperature increases at the southern parts of their respective permafrost regions. And the warming has been measured 30 or 40 meters deep, said Shiklomanov.
The Arctic ecosystem is likely shifting into a new regime, said Paul Wassmann, an oceanographer at University of Tromso, Norway
'Data and information from the past are unreliable indicators for what will happen in the future,' Wassmann said.
The Arctic ecosystem will never return to what it once was. And is true for all of the Earth's ecosystems, he said.
'The human thumb is pressing the globe, and pressing hardest on the North,' Wassmann said.






http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/13-1




hil:)hil:)hil:)hil:)

Tards
 

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Don't Taze Me, Bro!
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You mean THIS Al Gore?

The same one that buys bogus "Carbon Credits" from a company he owns, to offset his home energy use? The home that consumes up to 22,619 KwH per month? Or twice the energy that an average family would use in a year?
 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
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The global meadian temperature stopped increasing after 2001.
Carbon emissions have continued to increase.

Explain.



Global warming has been occuring on Mars and Venus, no humans, no SUV's, No carbon emmissions.

Explain.



Carbon emissions increased constantly and steadilly since 1940.
In 1970, there was global "COOLING".

Explain.



Gore has claimed polar bears are dying off.
Polar bear populations are ACTUALLY increasing.
Gore lied, flat out.

Explain.


You made ONE, semi-decently thought out post, in another thread, (and got credit for it) can you make it 2?
 

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Discussion Starter #5

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Discussion Starter #6
The global meadian temperature stopped increasing after 2001.
Carbon emissions have continued to increase.

Explain.



Global warming has been occuring on Mars and Venus, no humans, no SUV's, No carbon emmissions.

Explain.



Carbon emissions increased constantly and steadilly since 1940.
In 1970, there was global "COOLING".

Explain.



Gore has claimed polar bears are dying off.
Polar bear populations are ACTUALLY increasing.
Gore lied, flat out.

Explain.


You made ONE, semi-decently thought out post, in another thread, (and got credit for it) can you make it 2?
I don't know about the first three, but you'll have to post a link to a scientific study showing the polar bear population is increasing IN THE WILD. I don't think you can.
 

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Don't Taze Me, Bro!
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you'll have to post a link to a scientific study showing the polar bear population is increasing IN THE WILD. I don't think you can.
here's proof , they can be found as far as Antarctica:)hand

 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
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I don't know about the first three, but you'll have to post a link to a scientific study showing the polar bear population is increasing IN THE WILD. I don't think you can.
No, you need to educate yourself on the first 3.

Then I'll pull out the OTHER 50 or so "problems" with Algore's "inconvenient lie" known as man-made global warming.

Do your OWN homework (for once).

Thx boatcop, apreciated. :)
 

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Here litterbox:

There are more than 17,200 scientists who say that, "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate."

Explain how that is "consensus".


It has been found that the computer climate models have been doctored with a 4x multiple of the "reaction" to increased CO2 emissions, yet the MMGW people stil claim they are valid.

Explain.


The MMGW people (to include Algore) eliminate the "little ice age" that occured during the middle ages, during a period of low solar activity (the "maunder minimum") in their "historical data".
They ALSO eliminate the Midievil warm period where Vikings grew crops at settlements in Greenland and Northern England grew grapes for winemaking (just prior to the "little ice age")..

Explain.


During the Ordovician Period, 440 million years ago, there seems to have been 16 times as much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere as there is today--and yet, judging from the gravelly deposits it left behind, there was also an ice sheet near the South Pole that was four-fifths the size of present-day Antarctica.

Explain.


The Cretaceous Period, when dinosaurs ruled the Earth and CO2 levels were about eight times what they are today. The latest evidence, reported in 2007 by British researchers, suggests that temperatures in the tropics 95 million years ago were no higher than they are now; and while it was a lot warmer at the poles than it is today, it was still freezing cold.

Explain.



Algore has not reduced HIS energy consumption (nor airplane travel in his Gulfstream G-V)

Explain.


The UN IPCC has REFUSED to remove the names, from their report, of scientists it named as "signataries", who DISAGREE with the report. To get their names removed, has required lawsuits, not just requests to "leave my name off your eroneous report".

Explain.


AL Gore’s chart shows that CO2 is almost 30% higher than any time before in the last 650,000 years, and yet temperatures aren’t even at a peak of the last 1,000 years, and all major peaks are well above today’s temperature as well.

Explain.


In addition to Mars, Jupiter, Neptune, AND Pluto are experienceing Global Warming, again, without Suburbans, Escalades, US Industry, coal-fired electricity, or domesticated livestock farts.

Explain.


The IPCC reports have estimates of the residency life of CO2 ranging from 5 to 200 years IN THE SAME REPORT.
Studies on atmospheric C14 prove that at most, the residency life is 30 years for CO2.
Most credible studies place it closer to 7 years.

Explain.


Shall I continue litterbox?????????????????????????
 

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Before I go:

CO2 makes up 0.038% of the atmosphere.

95% of that (0.036%) is from mother nature.

5% of that (0.00019%) is from mankind.

If we stop EVERY SINGLE MAN-CAUSED source of CO2, we drop the CO2 0.00019%.

Let's quantify that, shal we, into something less abstract:

Distance from Los Angeles to New York City:
Acording to mapcrow.info, 2,443.79 miles (all CO2 in the air)
0.00019% of 2,443.79 miles, is 2,451.6 FEET. (Man's CO2)
Less than 1/2 mile. (0.46 miles)
 

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I took these pictures of Global Warming last Tues.:rolleyes: It's warming up so much, I went out and bought a snowmobile.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Before I go:

CO2 makes up 0.038% of the atmosphere.

95% of that (0.036%) is from mother nature.

5% of that (0.00019%) is from mankind.

If we stop EVERY SINGLE MAN-CAUSED source of CO2, we drop the CO2 0.00019%.

Let's quantify that, shal we, into something less abstract:

Distance from Los Angeles to New York City:
Acording to mapcrow.info, 2,443.79 miles (all CO2 in the air)
0.00019% of 2,443.79 miles, is 2,451.6 FEET. (Man's CO2)
Less than 1/2 mile. (0.46 miles)
Dude you are BRILLIANT!! Please stop those crazy climate scientists who have studied global warming and believe in it. Send them all your research NOW! You must save the planet!! :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Here litterbox:

There are more than 17,200 scientists who say that, "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate."

Explain how that is "consensus".


It has been found that the computer climate models have been doctored with a 4x multiple of the "reaction" to increased CO2 emissions, yet the MMGW people stil claim they are valid.

Explain.


The MMGW people (to include Algore) eliminate the "little ice age" that occured during the middle ages, during a period of low solar activity (the "maunder minimum") in their "historical data".
They ALSO eliminate the Midievil warm period where Vikings grew crops at settlements in Greenland and Northern England grew grapes for winemaking (just prior to the "little ice age")..

Explain.


During the Ordovician Period, 440 million years ago, there seems to have been 16 times as much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere as there is today--and yet, judging from the gravelly deposits it left behind, there was also an ice sheet near the South Pole that was four-fifths the size of present-day Antarctica.

Explain.


The Cretaceous Period, when dinosaurs ruled the Earth and CO2 levels were about eight times what they are today. The latest evidence, reported in 2007 by British researchers, suggests that temperatures in the tropics 95 million years ago were no higher than they are now; and while it was a lot warmer at the poles than it is today, it was still freezing cold.

Explain.



Algore has not reduced HIS energy consumption (nor airplane travel in his Gulfstream G-V)

Explain.


The UN IPCC has REFUSED to remove the names, from their report, of scientists it named as "signataries", who DISAGREE with the report. To get their names removed, has required lawsuits, not just requests to "leave my name off your eroneous report".

Explain.


AL Gore’s chart shows that CO2 is almost 30% higher than any time before in the last 650,000 years, and yet temperatures aren’t even at a peak of the last 1,000 years, and all major peaks are well above today’s temperature as well.

Explain.


In addition to Mars, Jupiter, Neptune, AND Pluto are experienceing Global Warming, again, without Suburbans, Escalades, US Industry, coal-fired electricity, or domesticated livestock farts.

Explain.


The IPCC reports have estimates of the residency life of CO2 ranging from 5 to 200 years IN THE SAME REPORT.
Studies on atmospheric C14 prove that at most, the residency life is 30 years for CO2.
Most credible studies place it closer to 7 years.

Explain.


Shall I continue litterbox?????????????????????????
But you haven't posted links to your assertions. How do I know you just c&p some crazy crap off a right wing blog? I'm sure that's EXACTLY what you've done but I want to see the links so I can have a good laugh(at your expense of course). It would make me feel so much better. :)grn :)hand
 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
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Dude you are BRILLIANT!! Please stop those crazy climate scientists who have studied global warming and believe in it. Send them all your research NOW! You must save the planet!! :rolleyes:
What about the MAJORITY of scientists who DO NOT "believe" in MMGW?

Include in thas list the ones who TRIED to address the MMGW conference in the Pacific a couple years ago, and were not only denied time, but, when held a press conference, THEIR PRESS CONFERENCE WAS CLOSED, FORCIBLY, on govt. orders, at the request of the UN.
 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
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But you haven't posted links to your assertions. How do I know you just c&p some crazy crap off a right wing blog? I'm sure that's EXACTLY what you've done but I want to see the links so I can have a good laugh(at your expense of course). It would make me feel so much better. :)grn :)hand
You do your own homework you stupid putz and prove me wrong.

I've got a hundred links, to valid data, scientific data, complete with pretty charts you'll never understand, on your best day, links to scientific surveys, links to NASA TEMPERATURE INFO (from NASA you moron, not from democraticunderground.com) (btw, NASA found it's widely reported "2006 hottest year ever" DATA WAS WRONG. Some putz (like you) couldn't do the math accurately.
Was the CORRECTION reported?

Do your homework putz.

1934, hottest year on record.

6 of the 10 hottest, BEFORE 1950.

Links to the scientists who disagreed, who HAD TO SUE the UN to get their names removed from the IPCC report, because the IPCC refused to remove their "endorsement" names from the report on request (or on demand). They did not agree with the report, yet the UN IPCC insisted on puting their names on the report as suporters WHY?????

Do your own homework you moron.

There's a 10-ton load of bricks AGAINST Andropogenic Global Warming, growing about 2 tons a year.
You are just about the right IQ to step under it.

Go for it moron.

BTW, from Miriam Webster:
Main Entry: mo·ron

Etymology: irregular from Greek mōros foolish, stupid
Date: 1910
1: a mildly mentally retarded person
2: a very stupid person



id·i·ot

Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French ydiote, from Latin idiota ignorant person, from Greek idiōtēs one in a private station, layman, ignorant person
Date: 14th century
1: a person affected with extreme mental retardation
2: a foolish or stupid person
 

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Living in a cage of fear
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This is great!

Well, cat, I don't know any scientist's, and I don't need a link to know that the Ice cap is going nowhere anytime soon.
I worked above the arctic circle for 18 years. I have seen polar bears in the wild first hand.
Do you know where they live? On the ice cap.
They only come onto land when the ice cap comes within swimming distance of land, or actually walk on when it drifts to land. They do not hibernate.
I saw no warming trend while I busted my ass at 85 below zero some days.

Let me clue you in about Gore, and the environmentalists in general.
It is all about money. Manipulating public opinion to get more funding.
That is it, period.
I watched the "Rainbow Warrior" picket Northstar Island off of Prudhoe Bay one summer. Note that it was summer because in winter you can't tell where land ends and water starts. It is all frozen, Ships don't float well on ice. Do you know that the "Warrior" burns more diesel in a day than the drilling operation it was picketing? They sent Zodiacs to the island, into the waiting handcuffs of the Alaska State Troopers.
That is when I realized that they did not care at all about the "cause", only getting more funding.
Environmentalism is a business like any other, except it relies heavily on public opinion and funding.
I have environmental concerns like any one else, so do the Oil and Gas companies I work for. They are actually MORE concerned at times than the people that picket them.
Gore?? Give me a break.
 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
Joined
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6,834 Posts
This is great!

I worked above the arctic circle for 18 years. I have seen polar bears in the wild first hand.
Do you know where they live? On the ice cap.
They only come onto land when the ice cap comes within swimming distance of land, or actually walk on when it drifts to land. They do not hibernate.
I saw no warming trend while I busted my ass at 85 below zero some days.
But if the earth's temperature raises another 0.4 degrees it'll only be 84.6 degrees below zero, and all life will end.

USF&WS Ursus Maritimus
Polar Bears SWIM poo, up to 6mph, and have been seen 100 miles from land or ice.
They also DIVE, 10 to 15 feet has been proven.

putz   
–noun Slang.
1. fool; jerk.
2. Vulgar. penis.


Schmuck.
Schmuck, a Yiddish word, has a range of meaning depending on context. In its most innocuous use, a schmuck is a person who does a stupid thing, in which case "dumb schmuck" is the appropriate expression.

A schmuck's behavior ranges from pesky and inconsiderate, to obnoxious and manipulative. A schmuck's personality type ranges from jerk to bastard.

Schmucky behavior also falls within a range of intentionality. Some schmucks carefully plan their bad behavior, some only a little, and some not at all. For example, the bastard may spend considerable time planning his bad deeds. In contrast, the dumb schmuck and the pesky behave badly without any forethought


I don't call names, I describe, accurately.
 

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Living in a cage of fear
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Here is an interesting tidbit.
Do you know what animal is related to polar bears?
Hint: They are the only 2 species with blue tongues.
 
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