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Boatless Member :(
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Discussion Starter #1
How many people who actually "pay in" do not work for the government or a government contractor directly?

I'd be interested to see this answer. I work for a government contractor so my taxes basically pay myself...
 

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That would mean that you give them your whole paycheck. Nope don't think so. I am self employed and work for tax payers. Then I pay a bunch of money every 3 months.
 

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Boatless Member :(
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Discussion Starter #3
That would mean that you give them your whole paycheck. Nope don't think so. I am self employed and work for tax payers. Then I pay a bunch of money every 3 months.
That's not what I meant.

Let use the FBI. About 36k people work there. Probably all of them make enough money to pay taxes based on the location. They are funded 100% by federal tax money, but all pay 10-50% in federal and state taxes.

So really, a portion of their salary is paying for themselves. How many instances of this occurs for people who are recorded to pay a positive tax amount?

The real question I'm trying to get to is, how many people in the private sector people, not on a government contract, actually pay income taxes?

Then you can ask how much of their income is based off of goods and services sold to those who are on "taxes"?
 

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Colts fan & Stoker owner
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I work for Boeing Commercial so not a welfare program. :D
 

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Just looked at the new tax chart. I am in the 28% bracket. Up about 5% from before. Obama said my taxs would not go up. Plus I will be paying twice as much Social Security for my self and employes. I was lied to.
 

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Boatless Member :(
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Discussion Starter #6
I work for Boeing Commercial so not a welfare program. :D
The white collar welfare where I work is astonishing. That's not even considering the gross waste the government imposes and pays for willingly.
 

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Premium Member
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112.8 million tax payers out of 143.6 people employeed, which includes 4.6 million fed employees(including R&J), 17 million state, county and city(many who are federally subsized), and let's not leave out 48.1 million sitting on their OUR tax money. This RIGHTFULLY does not include retired on SS. It also RIGHTFULLY does not include the military.

So Icy, you would have to add in those doing government contracts. HOWEVER, I will add that most of the work does need to be done, and its better that the private sector does it than some over paid under worked federal dead beat. Government contracts exist because there is nobody in the government that can make anything, or develope anything.
If they need something done, they have no choice but the contract it out. The highest level of actual WORK done in the federal government is cooking and janitorial. They are 100% incabable anything else.

Taxes are paid, and always have been, since the founding of the country, to provide a defense and the pay for the required goods and services the government NEEDS to operate. Its not the taxes ICY, its what they do with them that is going to be their undoing in time. No different than for King George III.



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Boatless Member :(
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Discussion Starter #8
Taxes are paid, and always have been, since the founding of the country, to provide a defense and the pay for the required goods and services the government NEEDS to operate. Its not the taxes ICY, its what they do with them that is going to be their undoing in time. No different than for King George III.
The federal government used to run on Donations if I recall correctly, until the war of 1812. We didn't have income taxes until 1913.

I'd argue all day long that the there does not need to be a federal income tax but that's not the thread topic really.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out, is how much of GDP is government related.
 

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The federal government used to run on Donations if I recall correctly, until the war of 1812. We didn't have income taxes until 1913.

I'd argue all day long that the there does not need to be a federal income tax but that's not the thread topic really.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out, is how much of GDP is government related.
There were federal taxes almost since 1776 before the revolution. Most of which were paid by the states, that collected them from the businesses. Like a sales tax. It was the colonies that were indebted to the fed, not the citizens directly.


The first fed taxes were import AND export taxes. There has also been fed taxes on tobacco and alcohol since the 13 colonies united. The Whiskey Rebellion was, in part, due to the taxation if the grains BEFORE they were fermented into alcohol. Basically taxing it at the source.

One of the interesting things about the Whiskey Rebellion is it was put down by a militia led by a UNIFORMED CITIZEN, George Washington, POTUS. Or so history records it. OR was it a military action against its citizens led by a military general? :hmmm:

The tax was the brain child of Alexander Hamilton. Jefferson hated Hamilton, and his political beliefs. But Jefferson kept the whiskey tax and had just as much trouble trying to collect it. In time, they started collecting the tax from the distillers based on volume distilled, instead of the framers field yield.



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steelcomp was here
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If you actually read the tax code, there is nothing in there that requires a private citizen to pay a personal income tax. Going out and working to put a roof over your head and food in your house is not a taxable privelage, it's a non taxable right and in "frivilous tax" arguments, the IRS will not argue against this.
 

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Red Blooded American
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The entire income tax debacle is a catch 22 of Biblical proportion.

The moment the government concluded that taxing income could increase Federal revenue they started growing government with our money. Today we have 1000 Federal agencies - far less than 100 of which are honestly essential to the American citizen. Welfare programs have now created a monster that continues to feed the non-productive into the fifth generation of takers. It's growing far faster than our GDP ever will so it's only a matter of time before this implodes.

One group (the liberal/leftist/democrats - which are now actually socialists) believes this process is acceptable and approves of the direction this nation is headed. Rod, shue, 1986, cvx and the like voted to keep America on this unsustainable path with their heads held high while calling the conservative right a bunch of tea baggers for actually wanting America to be on a budget. Time will not only prove these socialists wrong but the continued degradation of our economy, unemployment, out of control spending, and growth of government, among other disasters as if "all is well" will sooner than later implode this nation.

We are spending so much more than we are taking in that a child born in America today already owes over $50,000.00 as he takes his first breath. Only a liberal could laugh at someone that wanted to fix this problem.
 

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Marine Organism
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Just looked at the new tax chart. I am in the 28% bracket. Up about 5% from before. Obama said my taxs would not go up. Plus I will be paying twice as much Social Security for my self and employes. I was lied to.
I did extremely well this year and am afraid to look. Now I am afraid to ask, "Is there one online?" :)sphss
 

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In truth, the bottom line on the 16th amendment is that is was tied to the Federal Reserve Act of the same time period. The Reserve Notes are 100% backed by the ability of the RESERVE to collect good on the debt that the government takes on. No tax, no collection agency, NO LOANS. It just does not get any easier and simpler than that.

As long as the U.S. government has the power to rack up debt, the FEDERAL RESERVE has the right to collect taxes.
The RESERVE has no intentions of ever allowing the government to go debt free, and NOBODY in the government is concerned about it either. They aren't the ones paying the debt.

The ability to borrow against future tax revenue is only a small portion of the agreement with the "bank". If you ever have a chance to read your DEED, the one that the REAL title holder has, the one you get if and when you ever pay off your morgage, your might be stunned to find out you are only a TENANT. Nowhere on the deed does it say youn OWN shit.

Its one of those little things that allows the IRS(the FED'S collection agency) to sieze your house WITHOUT due process. Why. Because its NOT REALLY YOURS!!!!! YOU are nothing more than a TENANT! and they simply EVICT you!

In 1913 the U.S. government went from floating bonds to raise money, much like cities, counties and states still do, to creating a credit line with the Federal Reserve. Think of it as a home equity, and YOUR home is the collatera.

Like Steel posted, there really is nothing that gives the government the right to FORCE you to pay taxes. It DID however give the federal reserve the power to COLLECT debt. Who is REALLY on the hook for the debt? Mainly those that think they OWN something. Can't squeeze blood from a turnip.



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Gotta laugh every time I go to town on HWY 101. Big sign, $1.4 million, for putting in cable barriers (because people cant seem to stay in the 2 lanes they got now).

"Putting Washington back to work, jobs!"
BS. More like take your tax money, hire you to do the work, pay ya back with your money anyway, and then tax ya again....
 

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Boatless Member :(
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Discussion Starter #15
Gotta laugh every time I go to town on HWY 101. Big sign, $1.4 million, for putting in cable barriers (because people cant seem to stay in the 2 lanes they got now).

"Putting Washington back to work, jobs!"
BS. More like take your tax money, hire you to do the work, pay ya back with your money anyway, and then tax ya again....
This is exactly the point I'm trying to tell people but with the added point they are taking raw goods out of the market which decreases the supply which increases the cost.
 

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Living in a cage of fear
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The ability to borrow against future tax revenue is only a small portion of the agreement with the "bank". If you ever have a chance to read your DEED, the one that the REAL title holder has, the one you get if and when you ever pay off your morgage, your might be stunned to find out you are only a TENANT. Nowhere on the deed does it say youn OWN shit.

Its one of those little things that allows the IRS(the FED'S collection agency) to sieze your house WITHOUT due process. Why. Because its NOT REALLY YOURS!!!!! YOU are nothing more than a TENANT! and they simply EVICT you!
sorry, mine doesn't say i'm a "tenant", and yes i do own it. but if it makes you feel better because i'm obligated to pay property taxes on it, that's fine. but my property taxes don't go to the feds. maybe yours do?. there's NOTHING in my deed that connects my property to the feds.

hhhmmmm. do you "own" your truck, or are you just borrowing it???
 

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On "owning"..anything, thats your personal decision to "borrow", another's money for a better life. And damn right they own it until "loan", paid off. Me, free and clear ANYTHING I own. Paid off the last house 10 years ago. And "borrowing a house bought", makes sense, as who has a couple hundred grand, ready to spend. AND a house will always appreciate, and even if with the ups and downs..R/E prices, in the long run .."you win". I have learned to NEVER..EVER, "finance", a depreciating ANYTHING". I want a new car or boat or M/C?...its cash available. If I can't afford it, ..well, I can't. Or go "credit", pay actually double over the years owned, and what ya paid, will never get ya a dime back. I see idoit kids here, spend a grand a month a "rental", but a new "bling" ride in the driveway, and bitch about the rent?. Got it WAY backwards. Buy a house..(same payments a ride now), and drive a old junker. Nobody with brains would call ya wrong. But simple smart, as down the road, ya sure gonna win. Lifes a freaking game...but ya have way more control than ya think. No way ya can stop the "gov", taxing ya, just vote OUT ANY entrenched congress, (TERM LIMITS!) as they see the do nothing, hot air BS, get paid well, the perks, a pretty cushy "job") On "borrowed" money? Anything, THEY own it, until ya pay it off. I don't know if I'm smart/lucky/or understood "the game", but I got retired out the rat race at 44, 62 now. I might be far from.."wealthy", with STUFF, but what I do have, is "good'nuff for me". And if ya do NOT pay the balance ANY monthly credit card....you are simple .."over spending"..what ya don't have the dough to pay for.........
 

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Since government doesn't produce anything, then one has to ask why are we paying so much and getting so little in return. At one time a government job was were people went who couldn't get hired in the private sector. Government jobs paid a low but livable wage. The created an opportunity for training. The private sector was the end game.

Today we have the same unemployable people working in many unless jobs, doing nothing in a foreign language while collecting ridiculous salaries and benefits off the back of the producers. These same people are delusional in believing they are , in some big way, contributing to society.
 

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Living in a cage of fear
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Since government doesn't produce anything, then one has to ask why are we paying so much and getting so little in return. At one time a government job was were people went who couldn't get hired in the private sector. Government jobs paid a low but livable wage. The created an opportunity for training. The private sector was the end game.

Today we have the same unemployable people working in many unless jobs, doing nothing in a foreign language while collecting ridiculous salaries and benefits off the back of the producers. These same people are delusional in believing they are , in some big way, contributing to society.
So you HAVE met CVX, Rod, Shue......and dare I say..RAM??????
 
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