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Marine Organism
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:happy:
 

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Letting GM fail would not have been the answer.:no:
Filling B/K wouldn't have made GM dissapear it just would have restructured the company. They way the government B/Ked it the stock, bond holders lost it all. A friend of mine lost his dealership that he paid for with, get this, his own money. We bail out Chrysler then gave it to the Itialians, that made alot of sense. So if O gets relected what's next on his agenda the energy companies??????????
 

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Letting GM fail would not have been the answer.:no:
And they wouldn't have. They would end up just as viable as American Airlines, Delta, and all the other major corps did when they went through a structured bankruptcy. The Gov bankruptcy had nothing to do with saving GM. It had everything to do with saving the Union.:)bulb
 

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Filling B/K wouldn't have made GM dissapear it just would have restructured the company. They way the government B/Ked it the stock, bond holders lost it all. A friend of mine lost his dealership that he paid for with, get this, his own money. We bail out Chrysler then gave it to the Itialians, that made alot of sense. So if O gets relected what's next on his agenda the energy companies??????????
GM did file b/k and was restructured into new leaner company. It sucks for your friend, but from what I read, GM had too many dealerships. How would you pick which dealerships got closed?
 

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And they wouldn't have. They would end up just as viable as American Airlines, Delta, and all the other major corps did when they went through a structured bankruptcy. The Gov bankruptcy had nothing to do with saving GM. It had everything to do with saving the Union.:)bulb
Save your anti union shit Marvin, this isn't a TP rally. There was much more to it than just saving the UAW.
 

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Save your anti union shit Marvin, this isn't a TP rally. There was much more to it than just saving the UAW.
Bullshit. GM did not need the Gov for a restructured Bankruptcy. There was 100 yrs of bankruptcy law in place. O was not about to let all the Union contracts be voided and the pensions. The same thing that happened to the unions of the airlines They fucked the bondholders who would have been the first to get thier money back. And they would have been trimmed much leaner without the Gov. All of your liberal diversionarry TP, Union bullshit rhetoric won't change facts.:rolleyes:
 

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GM did file b/k and was restructured into new leaner company. It sucks for your friend, but from what I read, GM had too many dealerships. How would you pick which dealerships got closed?
Holycow Romney is getting his ass handed to him by O for wanting to BK GM, and you say GM went throught BK. Which is it Romeny BK or O-BK. Why didn't the union take a hit like the share and bond holders did??? I wouldn't have closed any of the dealership, let the market dictate that. My friend was one of the Chevrolet dealership with a history of selling more Corvettes than any dealer in the country. Why would GM give a crap how many dealers they have as long as they sell cars??? O hasn't saved anything least of all the pride that this country once had...
 

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Dogma's a bitch.
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Save your anti union shit Marvin, this isn't a TP rally. There was much more to it than just saving the UAW.
It was the shareholders that got screwed.

GM's bankruptcy allowed for the US to assume 60% ownership and Canada(!) 12.5% ownership. The bondholders took it in the rear, but the shareholders got wiped.

The pension plan stayed largely intact and this, in my opinion, is what has most folks upset.
Had the US stayed out of the restructuring, GM could have asked the court to excuse the contracts the UAW has with them, freeing up a terrifically huge burden.

The UAW isnt totally the problem with GM, it's the UAW's unfunded pension plan that is choking the comany to death. Again.
 

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Holycow Romney is getting his ass handed to him by O for wanting to BK GM, and you say GM went throught BK. Which is it Romeny BK or O-BK. Why didn't the union take a hit like the share and bond holders did??? I wouldn't have closed any of the dealership, let the market dictate that. My friend was one of the Chevrolet dealership with a history of selling more Corvettes than any dealer in the country. Why would GM give a crap how many dealers they have as long as they sell cars??? O hasn't saved anything least of all the pride that this country once had...
I think Romney wanted a Ch 7 liquidation of all GM assets instead of the CH 11 reorganization which GM ended up doing. The stock and bonds lost their value because no one would buy them. The union did take a hit and was forced to renegotiate their contract.

Dealerships operate with the approval from the manufacturer. If they stop providing you with new products, you won't have anything to sell. GM made the decision there were too many dealerships and wanted some of them closed, that is their right. Their theory was instead of having 5900 dealerships struggling, kill 900 and allow the other 5000 to survive. Selling the most Corvettes doesn't mean you were the most profitable for GM and that doesn't guarantee you anything. From what I read, they looked at how profitable the dealerships were, how nice the facilities were, what services the dealership could provide, the proximity to other GM dealerships, and then they made their decision. Like I said, it sucks for your buddy.
 

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I think Romney wanted a Ch 7 liquidation of all GM assets instead of the CH 11 reorganization which GM ended up doing. The stock and bonds lost their value because no one would buy them. The union did take a hit and was forced to renegotiate their contract.

Dealerships operate with the approval from the manufacturer. If they stop providing you with new products, you won't have anything to sell. GM made the decision there were too many dealerships and wanted some of them closed, that is their right. Their theory was instead of having 5900 dealerships struggling, kill 900 and allow the other 5000 to survive. Selling the most Corvettes doesn't mean you were the most profitable for GM and that doesn't guarantee you anything. From what I read, they looked at how profitable the dealerships were, how nice the facilities were, what services the dealership could provide, the proximity to other GM dealerships, and then they made their decision. Like I said, it sucks for your buddy.
Thinking is nice...

A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=0

That doesn't sound like liquidation to me. Must be nice to be able to go around and make shit up and still be able to live with yourself.
 

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I think Romney wanted a Ch 7 liquidation of all GM assets instead of the CH 11 reorganization which GM ended up doing. The stock and bonds lost their value because no one would buy them. The union did take a hit and was forced to renegotiate their contract.

Dealerships operate with the approval from the manufacturer. If they stop providing you with new products, you won't have anything to sell. GM made the decision there were too many dealerships and wanted some of them closed, that is their right. Their theory was instead of having 5900 dealerships struggling, kill 900 and allow the other 5000 to survive. Selling the most Corvettes doesn't mean you were the most profitable for GM and that doesn't guarantee you anything. From what I read, they looked at how profitable the dealerships were, how nice the facilities were, what services the dealership could provide, the proximity to other GM dealerships, and then they made their decision. Like I said, it sucks for your buddy.
Yea it sucked for my buddie and the city in whch the dealership was in lost 10% of its tax base. Now the city wants to charge people to park in front of their homes to generate income. If I was selling widgets nation wide I could give a hoot how many they sold as long as I keep getting orders from them.....
 

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Thinking is nice...



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=0

That doesn't sound like liquidation to me. Must be nice to be able to go around and make shit up and still be able to live with yourself.
It really is, you should try it sometime.:))THumbsUp Who's making shit up? I stand corrected but I still haven't seen the US auto industry fail like Willard said it would.:hmmm: GM and Chrysler would have failed if they weren't bailed out.
 

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It really is, you should try it sometime.:))THumbsUp Who's making shit up? I stand corrected but I still haven't seen the US auto industry fail like Willard said it would.:hmmm: GM and Chrysler would have failed if they weren't bailed out.

Growing up in the Midwest on a farm by a no nonsense hard working conservative,I learned volumes. Help is one thing a hand out is totally different.My Father always said when the undeserving come with a hand out you turn it and shake it.:hmmm:
 

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Dogma's a bitch.
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It really is, you should try it sometime.:))THumbsUp Who's making shit up? I stand corrected but I still haven't seen the US auto industry fail like Willard said it would.:hmmm: GM and Chrysler would have failed if they weren't bailed out.
Failed how though? Do you really believe that GM would have closed completely? I dont for a minute believe that. They are "too big to fail".

They would have come out of BK as a leaner company, as they have, but very likely without the tremendous financial burdens they (still) carry.

Someone had to lose in the BK process. A normal BK would very likely have had the pensioners losing their hard earned incomes, the way that our administration handled it it was the share and bondholders that lost.

The union, through their work stoppage tactic, is responsible for the inflated pay scale and unsustainable pension system. 40 years ago when the Big three were selling all the cars, it could be maintained, but not in these times. Too much competition from other manufacturers. They arent selling all the cars anymore.

The pension system has to be reformed or GM will go down in flames again, soon, and there will be no one to catch them this time around.
 

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Growing up in the Midwest on a farm by a no nonsense hard working conservative,I learned volumes.
You did? :))THumbsUp Ok, show us how to calculate the volume of sphere with a radius of 12 ft.:happy:

Help is one thing a hand out is totally different.My Father always said when the undeserving come with a hand out you turn it and shake it.:hmmm:
That's great, but the auto industry bailout is a differnet thing. Ever hear of the arsenal of democracy? Do you know what the impact would have been if GM and Chrysler were allowed to fail? The US auto industry is worth much more than the sum of its parts and that is why the bailout was the right thing to do.
 

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Failed how though? Do you really believe that GM would have closed completely? I dont for a minute believe that. They are "too big to fail".

They would have come out of BK as a leaner company, as they have, but very likely without the tremendous financial burdens they (still) carry.
Simply restructuring wasn't enough. They needed cash to get through it, and they didn't have any. The banks weren't in a position to lend even if at the time they were willing to, which they weren't. That's why they needed the bailout.

Someone had to lose in the BK process. A normal BK would very likely have had the pensioners losing their hard earned incomes, the way that our administration handled it it was the share and bondholders that lost.
The share and bondholders would have lost anyway. The bonds would have been considered "junk" and would not be worth anything, remember, they weren't guaranteed bonds. Stock value would have dropped to nothing as well, so yes, the share and bondholders got screwed, but it wasn't because of government actions.

Now lets set asside whether you think the union pensioners earned their pension and ask yourself this: what affect would dissolving the pension have? You know who would be left holding the tab? The US taxpayer because those pensions were guaranteed by the US government.

The union, through their work stoppage tactic, is responsible for the inflated pay scale and unsustainable pension system. 40 years ago when the Big three were selling all the cars, it could be maintained, but not in these times. Too much competition from other manufacturers. They arent selling all the cars anymore.
GM willingly signed the contracts.

The pension system has to be reformed or GM will go down in flames again, soon, and there will be no one to catch them this time around.
They have been reformed. All three have signed new contracts.
 

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....GM willingly signed the contracts....
Indeed, they were made an offer they could not refuse.... :rolleyes:
With all due respect....IMO, the Government should stay out of the free enterprise processes....Let the chips fall where they may, otherwise, we are not "FREE".
In the end, we as Nation and society would have been stronger, and much more wiser from the experience, ... it is called, "learning from our mistakes"...

The only entity I consider we should protect as "NOT ALLOWED TO FAIL" is the U.S. Government. It is our responsibility as citizens, "We The People" to assure that never happens...
 

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Marine Organism
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Discussion Starter #19
Letting GM fail would not have been the answer.:no:
There you go ruining a perfectly good thread. I posted this in humor. Question: "Should the government bail me out if my business should fail?" I have one employee and pay child support AND PAY TAXES.... :)sphss

GM did file b/k and was restructured into new leaner company. It sucks for your friend, but from what I read, GM had too many dealerships. How would you pick which dealerships got closed?
I heard some were picked based on what ethnicity the owner was. How many shares did the UAW retain? Or was that just a fairy tail?

You did? :))THumbsUp Ok, show us how to calculate the volume of sphere with a radius of 12 ft.:happy:
That did make me laugh. :))THumbsUp
 
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