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Hey guys, I am tired of tearing my interior in and out of my sanger mini day cruiser trying to figure evertything out so I want to start with the basics. Can you hear the dumb questions coming? One the sanger has a paragon gears transmission with reverse. Any research I found on it says it is only rated at 325 hp. Anybody, seen these run in a performance application. I guess chris craft used to run them. Mr. Kindsvater had been very responsive and greaciously helpful in trying to dial me in a prop. You may have seen my question on upgrading my prop from nibral to steel. But If the tranny can handle the HP I will need to find out the gear reduction and get a gear selection figured out. If I need to change the tranny set up. T-400 or Powerglide? Basically I have given up the boating season as it just got started because I want this stuff to be set up right before I take it out. Thanks for the imput guys, And please dont hold back. Reading some of these threads you guys are more than cabable of dishing it out. Thanks WrightOn
 

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Highaboosta
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The T400 is what you see the most.
With no torque converter you don't even need a cooler on a low HP deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks unchained. That was the thinking route as I know neil is running one in his 85 sanger. It does have a trans cooler installed that is running to this paragon gears tranny.
 

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Lookout I'm Crankin it Baby
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Call one of two people that I have found to be very helpful. Phil Bergeron at Bergeron Engineering or Mike At Rex Marine. Both these guys are very knowlegable about your situation.

Now if your interested in total bull***** call Tony Scarlata...I have his cell if you need it.
 

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world's oldest teenager
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The T400 is what you see the most.
With no torque converter you don't even need a cooler on a low HP deal.
You do need a trans cooler, even with no converter. The pump makes heat and the trans will not last if you don't have a cooler. I like to plumb the cooler in series with the engine water.
 

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NOSTALGIC V-DRIVES
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What about using a BAM transmission? I believe it's a direct replacement for your paragon transmission. Obsessive Compulsive here on the boards ran one in a Sanger mini day cruiser with a Teague blower engine a had good luck with it.:)
 

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For single speed tranny, the Velvet drive #72c is tried and true. It will handle good HP. I'm running a T-400 ,but 1st is basically worthless I might consider the PG as it's smaller.

Only thing I don't like with the T-400 is because of no torque converter there really is no true neutral.. The prop is always spinning. I actually "drive" the boat around the launch ramp area in neutral just screwing around. It's more than just "creep".. And you can't really run the boat on the trailer.. Unless you find someone willing to lie under the boat with a a garden hose pointed at the strut.. But it's a little intimidating with the 3 blad ginzu knife flailing away under there.. Neutral is actually neutral with the velvet drive.. No clue about the PG, but I suspect it's like the t-400..
 

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Highaboosta
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You do need a trans cooler, even with no converter. The pump makes heat and the trans will not last if you don't have a cooler. I like to plumb the cooler in series with the engine water.
I knew someone would have something to say about that. :D
What about an engine that's actually making heat, do they all need an oil cooler too ? I bypassed my engine oil cooler because the oil was too cool and was not baking out condensation.

When I got my Daytona it came with a Ford motor and a C6 trans.
There was no trans oil cooler and it came that way from Eliminator 25 years ago. The original trans still worked great. They dont all need a cooler.
 

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My 1975 Sanger Mini has the same set up as RTs--T400 with cooler. I just got the shifter/cable issues resolved and, after driving a jet for so many years, loved playing with all the gears. I thought low was perfect for cruising the marina. I also have a Velvet Drive 72C--0 hrs on a fresh rebuild--sitting in my garage. It came out of a 20' Spectra--the owner went with a T400, and had the VD professionally rebuilt. Might consider selling.
 

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The C72 is pretty bullet proof, and compact. I highly reccomend it. It's going to be way cheaper too.

If you must have 2 forward gears, PGs are a great choice, and because the drag racers use them, there are an umlimited variety of parts available; even blowup proof cases... The low gear is nice if you have to navigate long stretches in no wake areas. If not, I'd stick with the C72 (I ran one with my skirace motor--650 hp--and it performed flawlessly)...
 

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world's oldest teenager
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I knew someone would have something to say about that. :D
What about an engine that's actually making heat, do they all need an oil cooler too ? I bypassed my engine oil cooler because the oil was too cool and was not baking out condensation.

When I got my Daytona it came with a Ford motor and a C6 trans.
There was no trans oil cooler and it came that way from Eliminator 25 years ago. The original trans still worked great. They dont all need a cooler.
In about 1974 I put a torque flight in my Sanger Flat Bottom, with a 426 Hemi and a Rossi coupler (no converter), and not oil cooler. It cooked the trans in one week end. Went through the trans again and installed a small cooler and never had another problem with it. I ran that same engine and trans combo for 3 years in the Sanger, and the for 14 years in a DiMarco day cruiser.
 

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world's oldest teenager
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\Only thing I don't like with the T-400 is because of no torque converter there really is no true neutral.. The prop is always spinning. I actually "drive" the boat around the launch ramp area in neutral just screwing around. It's more than just "creep".. And you can't really run the boat on the trailer.. Unless you find someone willing to lie under the boat with a a garden hose pointed at the strut.. But it's a little intimidating with the 3 blad ginzu knife flailing away under there.. Neutral is actually neutral with the velvet drive.. No clue about the PG, but I suspect it's like the t-400..
I left park installed, it is great for warming up the engine and running on the trailer, as the prop does not turn. You just have to remember that you can not shift back into park after you take it our of park, or at least not without shutting the engine off first.
 

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In about 1974 I put a torque flight in my Sanger Flat Bottom, with a 426 Hemi and a Rossi coupler (no converter), and not oil cooler. It cooked the trans in one week end. Went through the trans again and installed a small cooler and never had another problem with it. I ran that same engine and trans combo for 3 years in the Sanger, and the for 14 years in a DiMarco day cruiser.
Must have had a defective trans to begin with.
If you want to know if temperature caused a problem, you need to have a temp gauge on the trans. Otherwise it's just a wild guess.
 
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