Performance Boats Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Bored, so here goes.
How many of you builders check valve face runout? I would never dream of cutting a seat without checking runout, but I do not check face runout often.
Sunnen has a nice fixture$$!
I think Neway makes one too... goodson carries it too.
I contemplated making one.
Just another way to take even longer to build an engine.
Wags
 

·
steelcomp was here
Joined
·
26,512 Posts
Bored, so here goes.
How many of you builders check valve face runout? I would never dream of cutting a seat without checking runout, but I do not check face runout often.
Sunnen has a nice fixture$$!
I think Neway makes one too... goodson carries it too.
I contemplated making one.
Just another way to take even longer to build an engine.
Wags
Give you one guess.:)hand
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I probably know the answer. BUT.. still a mildly interesting discussion (to me anyway)
Wags

Sunnen wants 600 or 700 for theirs. I have a mill and a hammer. Hell, I should be able to make one, buy a top of the line indicator and still only use it a couple times a year. LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
I made a simple v-block with an adjustable indicator stand on it...worked well.
 

·
steelcomp was here
Joined
·
26,512 Posts
I probably know the answer. BUT.. still a mildly interesting discussion (to me anyway)
Wags

Sunnen wants 600 or 700 for theirs. I have a mill and a hammer. Hell, I should be able to make one, buy a top of the line indicator and still only use it a couple times a year. LOL
That's absurd. I've gotten to where I just automatically face new valves. My old machine isn't perfect, but it seems to be better than most valves are. I usually indicate the stem of about every fourth or fifth valve as I go through a set, just to make sure it's running true in the collet. I also do whatever back-cutting I've decided on at the same time, just to make 100% sure the angles are concentric.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I have a centerless grinder, so the tip "should" be square to the stem. A simple stop on the tip, a spring clamp deal to hold the valve stem down (not necessary, as I have a thumb), but faster, and an indcator. With e-bay being what it is.. I figure 50 to 100 bucks.
Wags
 

·
steelcomp was here
Joined
·
26,512 Posts
I have a centerless grinder, so the tip "should" be square to the stem. A simple stop on the tip, a spring clamp deal to hold the valve stem down (not necessary, as I have a thumb), but faster, and an indcator. With e-bay being what it is.. I figure 50 to 100 bucks.
Wags
Tip should be square, and if there's a bevel it needs to be perfectly concentric. Seen too many times where it wasn't, and that'll screw with ya for sure.
 

·
i'm back!!
Joined
·
687 Posts
Yup, always, I had one dedicated machine for race valves only, best thing I ever found for accuracy Lacey M. Williams Equipment Co. - Phillipsburg, NJ - installed it in a kwik way, uses the swiss collets. Yeah it takes time but produces a PERFECT face every time. Just a very good product. Grind a 2.4 titanium valve, runout is zero to .0005 every time. When I sold my shop that machine went with me...lol...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
You tube video on Concentricity

Wags- there is actually a youtube video for this....type in Concentricity in the search box.

There is a you tube video for everything!
 

·
Bostick Racing Engines
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
That's absurd. I've gotten to where I just automatically face new valves. My old machine isn't perfect, but it seems to be better than most valves are.
x2

One thing to remember... no matter how high end of a valve one buys... they are still done on a production basis and could stand to have some hand lovin' detail... even a well mantianed older machine can still produce a better finish and maintain better concentricity than something produced in mass quantity. Even on stockers... new valves get at least touched up before going into the head... I mean good valve seal makes all the difference... and is always overlooked with production and/or "lower end" builder/machine shops. IMO
 

·
steelcomp was here
Joined
·
26,512 Posts
x2

One thing to remember... no matter how high end of a valve one buys... they are still done on a production basis and could stand to have some hand lovin' detail... even a well mantianed older machine can still produce a better finish and maintain better concentricity than something produced in mass quantity. Even on stockers... new valves get at least touched up before going into the head... I mean good valve seal makes all the difference... and is always overlooked with production and/or "lower end" builder/machine shops. IMO
Good seal, and concentricity also helps keep the stem off the guide, believe it nor not.
 

·
Bostick Racing Engines
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
Good seal, and concentricity also helps keep the stem off the guide, believe it nor not.
You mean the valve is not supposed to bounce around in the guide trying to seat when it closes?:D

The hack/lazyman way of making a piss poor valve job work... make the guides loose as hell. I still gets me when people bring in stuff and say "it didn't leak when I poured solvent in the port, so I htink the valve job should be ok." Yeah... with 4 thou guide clearance you could use a rock and a drill motor to grind your valves and seats and they'll seal.:)sphss
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,180 Posts
I have always ground the valve and then looked at it. If it is not right your edge will be sharp on one side and thick on the other. But I am from Oklahoma. :)sphss
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I also grind new valves. Ferrea seem to be pretty good. Others, not so good. If I had a checker I could save so much time! :D
Wags
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Well, Starrett .0001" dial indicator on the way. Gotta love e-bay. Used, but hell... it has to be ok. (well, should be) I ain't building a clock.
V-block ends in a couple days. A few hours and I have my fixture.
I will see if I ever get it done and then whether I wasted my time and money cause stuff is ok, or not.
Wags
 

·
steelcomp was here
Joined
·
26,512 Posts
Well, Starrett .0001" dial indicator on the way. Gotta love e-bay. Used, but hell... it has to be ok. (well, should be) I ain't building a clock.
V-block ends in a couple days. A few hours and I have my fixture.
I will see if I ever get it done and then whether I wasted my time and money cause stuff is ok, or not.
Wags
:)devil

Never know if you don't check. If your luck is like mine, you'll check and check and find very little...then the one you don't check will be a factory reject and cost you a race...or a customer's engine. :)st
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Let's argue over the proper angle to check.
I built my fixture with the indicator perpendicular to the valve face...or 45* to the stem.
Now, the Sunnen SEAT fixture measures runout parallel to the guide. NOT Perpendicular to the seat.
WTF?
Wags
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
It still needs some touch up work. Needs to be parkerized or annodozed. The indicator support will be milled a little more to look nice.
Was contemplating putting a spring near the tip to hold some tension on the tip. I use my finger to roll it, so probably just more of a waste of time.
Wags
 

Attachments

·
steelcomp was here
Joined
·
26,512 Posts
It still needs some touch up work. Needs to be parkerized or annodozed. The indicator support will be milled a little more to look nice.
Was contemplating putting a spring near the tip to hold some tension on the tip. I use my finger to roll it, so probably just more of a waste of time.
Wags
So if your gauge shows some runout, is the face not concentric, or is the stem bent? BTW...nice little checking tool. I like it. I don't think the angle really matters much.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top