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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Valvetrain Noise on mechanical roller engine

Sorry guys for asking so many questions. I figured I would keep these topics seperate.
This is the first full roller and mechanical engine that I have had and the most money I have ever invested in an engine and I am pranoid as hell about it.
I seem to be hearing what sounds to me like alot of mechanichal noise in the valvetrain. It is not ticking like lifter ticking, it is not comming from one specific spot, rather it is all over the topend on both sides of the engine and is definately comming from inside the valve covers. Should a fullroller mechanichal setup make more noise than a bone stock hydraulic flat tappet set up?
I have allready talked to my builder and he said that a solid mechanichal set up will make more valvetrain noise. Is this normal
I also ask about setting lash and he said that he has allready set the lash and really doesnt need to be set or checked right away before some run time. Another concern of mine is that the cam card calls for .030in/.030ex lash hot. Does'nt that seem a little loose?
I do not know is the reason for me asking. I would rather ask and it be normal than take it out and tear this thing up on the first trip.
Tomarrow when i have all night, I am going to fire it up and warm it up and then pull the valve covers and run the valves to check things out. ...H
 

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Hal, is that the same cam you got from my brother? If so, run it at .030. They will make a bunch of noise at intial fire up and seem to quiet down when its warm. I always do my valves cold so i know that there are always set the same.
 

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H, they make a ton of noise. I say follow the builders recommendation. Feel free to check them now, later, and somewhere in between. If you find some differences don't change them before calling him. Get yourself a notebook. Write the measurements in the book every time you check them. Each time you set them, check them before you loosen them. You can find small problems before they become big ones.
Just my .n02
 

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holorinhal, welcome to the world of wide lash solid roller camshafts. It probably sounds like a singing or a calliope. specially if you have wet exhaust the is even approaching quite, and have stamped valve covers VS heavy cast covers. Ought to hear it under steel stamped covers.

Some will say there is no reason for a camshaft to have .030 lash, and many newer grinds do have .012-.017 lash. Almost all my cams run call for a .028 lash, and we treat the motor like a rent mule. I hav eno issues with them at all. Its all in the clearance ramp ground into the cam. Wide lash cams have slow take up ramps, and in my opinion, are gentler on the valve train. The old GM duntov grind in the injected small blocks, and 302 inch Z28 had .030 flat tappet cams that ran 7000 plus in a street small cube chevy, and required very little maintenance. I loved that cam. Still do. Are ther cams that make more power. Yep. But they are no more maintenance free. Maybe more so.
I cam makes power, and isn't a pain it the ass maintenance wise, I could care less what the lash is.
The wider lash is more tolerant to slight changes in the lash. I tend to run mine tighter than spec'd. As much as .007 tighter, but would never ever run them looser than +.002. If I was going to be off on the lash, always favor the tight side.

If your running alumn heads, and your guy set them at .030 cold, your WAAAAAAAAAAAY loose. Alumn heads usually require about .006-.009 tighter cold. Mine run .008, and I run the engine alittle on the warm side compared to others.

Yes, holorinhal, they are noisey. But you do need to check it after a short time the first time its run. Not hours,
EDIT: Like Futs said, I always check mine cold that way they are checked at roughly the same temp each time. Checking them after its run is a crap shoot at best. You can check one or two hot to get an idea what it is hot, then check the same valves cold, (NEXT DAY!) to see what they are cold. Maybe check 2 intake and 2 exhaust to get an idea of the change.



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if the cam card shows .030 hot you need to check them HOT IMO. I set mine, run the engine then set them hot per cam card, then I check them the next day cold to get my cold setting.
then I check them cold from that point on. Flame away experts:)hand
 

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My cam is .032" Intake and .030" exhaust.. I set them a little tighter like GN mentioned.. I set mine hot but I don't have much of a choice between rounds.. We've been doing it that way for years with 0 issues (knock on wood).. My opinion is follow the cam card..
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hal, is that the same cam you got from my brother? If so, run it at .030. They will make a bunch of noise at intial fire up and seem to quiet down when its warm. I always do my valves cold so i know that there are always set the same.
Tim, no its not the same cam, i still have that cam tucked safely away for another project. The cam I have in right now is a little bigger and is a solid grind where as the other was a hydraulic grind with solid morel lifters.
I decided to go with all brand spanking new internals below the heads.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok after burning my hands and arms and head a half a dozen times, on the hot valve covers and especialy the headers, i ran thru and checked the valve lash for the hot settings. The cam card calls for .030 intake and .030 exhaust hot, and hot it was!
I used the feel of a knife thru cold butter techniuqe and all the intake valves seemed to be prety dam close. However not all but some of the exhaust valves felt a little loose. I adjusted the exhaust valves to what feels like the proper setting and then ran thru all the valves one more time to make sure I did not miss any thing and they all felt the same. I used the eo-ic method but I did not use the fireing order. I just went down the line. Century performence seems to be pretty adimant about using the firing order ,but all others I have rea seem to advocate just going down the line. I hope this is ok?
So I will wait untill tomarrow and check the differance between hot and cold,if any and from then on I should be able to set them cold,right? Please tell me if I did this right or if I have missed something.......Hal
 

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So I will wait untill tomarrow and check the differance between hot and cold,if any and from then on I should be able to set them cold,right? Please tell me if I did this right or if I have missed something.......Hal
Then you'll find that the lash is all over the place again , just as it was when it was hot and you re adjusted everything. A/F ratio, and water flow thru the heads plays a huge part of the exhaust lash. It not an exact science unless your playing with Nascar type money.



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So I will wait untill tomarrow and check the differance between hot and cold,if any and from then on I should be able to set them cold,right? Please tell me if I did this right or if I have missed something.......Hal
My set of Alumi heads grow .004 - .006" when hot. If I want .028" hot I'll set them at .022" cold. that's close enough for me.


Once you know what your engine is supposed to sound like, you'll be able to pck-up on all the little changes it will make over time.

S CP
 

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hot vs cold

I too always set my lash when cold. Usually .004-.006 tighter than cam card says. On the turbo motor, takes about 1/2 hour or more per side to remove the turbo, exhaust, tubing, covers... and by then the motors cold enouph to change everything. And removing a hot turbo is no fun!

Best thing, is when you get back home, check everything, with a cold beer. Then if you find something, you can adjust or repair while you have time.

Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ok i just finnished running the valves to check the differance between yesterdays hot reading and todays cold reading. what i an getting today while the engine is cold is .028 so that is .002 tighter and again that is using the feel of a knife thru cold butter.
So should I just leave it alone there and allways set cold at .028 or would it hurt to tighten them up a couple thousandths so that the lash is a little tighter than .030 on the hot side. If so how much tighter should I go....Hal
 

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Can some one explain to me more detail how the feeler gauge should feel when checking the lash? I know yhey say it should feel like a butterknife thru cold butterYadaYadaYada, But i guese maybe I need a little more than that. Should I have to give it a litle shove or should it easily slide in/ Should I be able to move ithe feeler gauge easily side to side or only slide it side ways with a litle tug?
I just want to make sure I am measruing the lash correctly and not interpriting the feel too loose or too tight.....Hal
 

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Might try a go/no go feeler gauge
 

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Exactly. If your that concerned, use 2 feeler gauges, one of them 1 thou thicker.
Hal, don't make to much about this. The main thing is the same feel. Your talking less than a thou between snug and no go. Less than a thou between sloppy easy and snug. I gaurantee none of thje lash clearances are holding their lashes that close while running and hot. Even if you could lash them while running 3000 across the water, they wouldn't run the same at 5500. Some might get a thou tighter, and some get a thou looser, just due to water flow thru heads, or a slight A/F difference between cylinders. Same goes for piston clearances. Its not an exact science at this level.

Set em up about .004-.006 tighter than the hot lash and try to set them all with the same feel, and be done with it.



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Exactly. If your that concerned, use 2 feeler gauges, one of them 1 thou thicker.
Hal, don't make to much about this. The main thing is the same feel. Your talking less than a thou between snug and no go. Less than a thou between sloppy easy and snug. I gaurantee none of thje lash clearances are holding their lashes that close while running and hot. Even if you could lash them while running 3000 across the water, they wouldn't run the same at 5500. Some might get a thou tighter, and some get a thou looser, just due to water flow thru heads, or a slight A/F difference between cylinders. Same goes for piston clearances. Its not an exact science at this level.

Set em up about .004-.006 tighter than the hot lash and try to set them all with the same feel, and be done with it.
I agree with above mentioned! I frankly don"t care about hot and cold settings for the simple reason that valve adjust is going to vary that much just in human error! This is not a stab at you but a fact. Simple example: you miss the flat part of the lobe by a degree or so- you set tight on one or two valves. Solids are forgiving in this area more than a hydraulic. A solid valve train is going to make a different sound than a hydraulic no matter what. YOU WILL HEAR THEM! I have ran them for years and realized this long ago! I have watched guys at the track tighten up the clearance just to gain alittle bottom end for the finals--no big deal. You can alter lash on a solid ALOT easier than with a hydraulic just for tuning purposes and the cam doesn't feel a thing. the glory of a solid lifter set-up. JMO M
 

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Something i recently noticed...roll up and stick in your ear ear plugs are great for getting past exhaust noise so valve lash is easy to hear....it might sound like a bunch of racket at first but after a while
it has kind of a cadence at idle...
 

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Something i recently noticed...roll up and stick in your ear ear plugs are great for getting past exhaust noise so valve lash is easy to hear....it might sound like a bunch of racket at first but after a while
it has kind of a cadence at idle...
That has been used for years by old school tuners! Mechanics stethiscope. I have an old screwdriver in my tool box for just that reason. It is the best way to narrow down a clickity-click rather than running the whole rack! Once you get used to the rest of the valve train noise associated with mechanicals it's a slam dunk. It does take a tuned ear! M
 
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