Performance Boats Forum banner

wates gates on an old PFM TT 460 set up ???????????????

7K views 46 replies 11 participants last post by  Cheyenne321 
#1 ·
Hello all. Still working on the Hallet. Getting closer to getting it to run but having trouble controlling the boost. Anything over 10pounds and it detonates. The current way of boost control is the springs in the intercooler runners. I have yet to find anybody who can explain how this system works. Either way I have tried it with both the strongest and lightest springs. No change to speak of. Does anybody have any way of installing a manual Westgate on this type system. I appreciate the help. Call if you want to discuss. Jack 559-392-6444
 
#2 ·
Gale Banks made some exhaust risers with provisions for waste gates, although they may not be as common as all of the ones he made without any provisions. I have a set of them, probably taller than what you have with your PFM system.

Those early systems used a bypass hole drilled in the turbo exhaust housing to limit the amount of boost they would make. The actual waste gate would improve bottom end performance quite a bit over the large bypass hole in the housing.
 
#7 ·
Got your PM Wheeler. Thanks much. I would very much look forward to hearing from you when you get your hands on those parts. Regarding the Ford comment; don't give it a thought. Out of all my old car and old boat friends, I am the only one willing to run a ford. Not everyone can have good taste ya know. Have a great day.
 
#16 ·
It's nothing special, just a .060 over 454 with an old school PFM system.

I purchased the boat with turbos missing and it looked like this ...

Engine Auto part Vehicle Car Electronics


I didn't want to deal with mounting the new Tubonetics that I bought so I bought a blower ...

Product Auto part Engine Automotive engine part Machine


I brought the blower home and then decided I didn't want to deal with tearing the engine apart so I traded off the blower for this ....

Electrical wiring Machine Auto part Technology Engine


I mocked up the Gentry system then decided that I didn't like the carbs so close to the back seat so I decided to make the PFM system work with the new turbos ....

Product Toolroom Auto part Engine Machine


I either have no time or no money so the boat just sits in the hangar with a bunch of junk piled around it ... :indifferent0001:

Vehicle Transport Airplane Light aircraft Mode of transport


This is where it's at today ....

Engine Auto part Vehicle Car Automotive engine part




I hope to get back to work on it soon, if time permits. :wink2:
 
#18 · (Edited)
it should not detonate at slightly over 10 psi in my opinion.(if everything is o.k). got a pic? sounds like makeshift blow off valve in runners. what is your timing set at wot(wide open throttle)? what is the compression ratio? what fuel,pump gas 91? one more thing, are you sure you are not running lean? could be too much timing & running too lean? my banks set-up ran 13 psi on pump gas for years.
 
#20 ·
Timing is set at 30 pinned. I have a boost retard set at 1.5 per pound. Still working on carb. Stepped up a couple of jet sizes yesterday and it felt better; but once I get to 5,000 the boost climbs well over 12lbs and it detonates. I'm working on putting together a waste gate system as we speak. Once the boost is controlled I can dial in the fuel and timing a bit better.
My static CR is 8.1 on 91oc fuel, 13lbs is probably a bit much; at least from what I am being told.The odd thing is when running around 4,800 rpm but keeping the boost around 7lbs; after a few minuets the motor just starts to back out. Like running out of fuel or the ignition system is not keeping up.
Fuel pressure and bowl level are 25% of the glass, so I know it isn't running out of fuel. It is also kind of inconsistent as to when it happens. Anyway, just throwing it out there. Until I get the other issues delt with; I can't move forward.

Jack
 
#23 ·
I think you are both correct. The retard is hurting at the top end. I am making some changes with the carb and installing the waste gates which will get me a port into the exhaust where I can run an A/F computer. At this point I've just been reading plugs. Thanks for the advise.
 
#24 ·
Ok waste gates are on, a/f is staying in the mid 12's all the way through, according to boost gauge it won't boost beyond 7.5lbs. although the gates should allow for 10lbs. Timing is set at 30 degrees no retard. Still loosing power above 4,800rpm at won't pull past 5,000. Could to large a wheel cause this issue?
 
#25 · (Edited)
Little lean @ WFO-a/f ratio , I would look for upper 11's. Mid to upper 12's at cruise and lower to mid 14's at idle. This is what works for me, but you might not be able to get that precises with idle-lower rpm with the draw through.
First thing I would do is fatten up the wfo a/f ratio, and use a bore scope to look at the pistons/cylinder walls to make sure it isnt eating itself. Run through the lash, look over the valve train-valve springs. Run a compression check. Check out the general health of the engine.
In the end your still going to have to watch the plugs for signs of detonation, once the plugs/engine are happy then you can use the a/f guge as a reference to keep it there.
What do you mean to large of a wheel? Turbo? Compressor side or turbin? Or are you referring to the jet pump?

So you were having to much boost before and now not enough? Sounds like the gates need some adjustment to bring you up to 10psi -or where ever you want it. Its not going to make a ton of power @ 7.5psi.
 
#29 ·
I would say falls on its face. It just pulls real hard then acts like its running out fuel or the plugs are being blow out. However, the fuel bowls are staying up and WOT. One person suggested the rev limiter could be coming in prematurely. Not a bad idea and I will check that today. I just got off the phone with the company who built my carb and he said I could be having fuel come out the vent tubes and therefore adding unwanted fuel. He had me connect the vents with a hose and notch out a section. We'll see. I don't see how this could be much of an issue as the boat has the same attitude at 4,500 rpm as it is at 5,000, and extreme acceleration is certainly not an issue. We'll see.
 
#32 ·
How do you KNOW the bowls are staying full while WOT? What does the fuel system consist of?
Because it sure sounds like running out of fuel.
I hate the 6btm
 
#34 · (Edited)
Lets just say some of my friends & I have had bad luck with that box. And you can make more spark by banging two rocks together. :yes::)hand

Just for a test, close that plug gap up from your .030 to .020 and see if the problem disappears or gets better. Look at the cap & rotor/wires real good. If questionable, replace with quality parts.
 
#36 ·
Ran today. Tried the plug gap thing; no noticeable change. After running for some time; we settled on what we believe the correct plug coloration to be and basically for 1k to WOT its sits at 11.8 (A/F). However the rear of the motor does run a bit richer than the front. (460 Ford) Both sided of the motor do the same thing. I can only think the Performer dual plane manifold is not distributing the the fuel very evenly. I am running a NGK #7 plug if anyone thinks that could be an issue. The motor now pulls pretty hard right up to 6k. however, based on prop selection anything past 5k. doesn't really provide any further speed.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top