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Yep, we now own this dying dog, and with a 50 billlion dollar price tag, I dont think we got a very good deal...

Government running a business....holly cow!!!

And with the help of the unions...well this should be interesting!!!
 

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Yep, we now own this dying dog, and with a 50 billlion dollar price tag, I dont think we got a very good deal...

Government running a business....holly cow!!!

And with the help of the unions...well this should be interesting!!!
We're doomed:mad::mad::mad: The government could have SAVED GM AND Chrysler by just splitting up all of that money that it dumped into GM and Chrysler, to Every LEGAL US Citizen over the age of 18....Which would have EASILY stimulated the Car Sales and Economy.
It's all about Control with this Administration......
 
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We're doomed:mad::mad::mad: The government could have SAVED GM AND Chrysler by just splitting up all of that money that it dumped into GM and Chrysler, to Every LEGAL US Citizen over the age of 18....Which would have EASILY stimulated the Car Sales and Economy.
It's all about Control with this Administration......
Just curious how much you believe each person over 18 would have received?
 

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GM would have gone bankrupt any way you look at it. The issue isn't should the govt. help them now but rather should they/we have ever helped them.

Either way, bondholders and equity partners would not do to well.
 

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I wish they had gone BK before they took the tax payers money

GM would have gone bankrupt any way you look at it. The issue isn't should the govt. help them now but rather should they/we have ever helped them.

Either way, bondholders and equity partners would not do to well.
 

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Just curious how much you believe each person over 18 would have received?
It's not relative....and my calculator doesn't work this early in the morning.
What IS relative is the BILLIONS that the Government WASTED that you will NEVER see again, along with the BILLIONS more that are coming up now. Keep in mind, the Government is now going to pay for GM to go in and "Retool" the manufacturing process/assembly lines, to build cars that nobody wants.
I've heard some $$ numbers on the cost of retooling, and it isn't cheap. If I wanted a "Green" car, I'd buy it from somebody that has been building them for years...Like Toyota or Honda.
But I like my trucks and SUV's and that's what I buy. GM just won't be competitive with Toyota and Honda when it comes to that type of Green vehicle and the only way to keep GM afloat is to keep throwing taxpayer $$ at them. Enough is enough already
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It's not relative....and my calculator doesn't work this early in the morning.
What IS relative is the BILLIONS that the Government WASTED that you will NEVER see again, along with the BILLIONS more that are coming up now. Keep in mind, the Government is now going to pay for GM to go in and "Retool" the manufacturing process/assembly lines, to build cars that nobody wants.
I've heard some $$ numbers on the cost of retooling, and it isn't cheap. If I wanted a "Green" car, I'd buy it from somebody that has been building them for years...Like Toyota or Honda.
But I like my trucks and SUV's and that's what I buy. GM just won't be competitive with Toyota and Honda when it comes to that type of Green vehicle and the only way to keep GM afloat is to keep throwing taxpayer $$ at them. Enough is enough already
The retooling should be interesting. I worked with the auto guys for years selling industrial controls and motor control systems, and now they want to retool, but I cant see who will work with them with out a COD, of CIA policy, who is gonna soak millions of dollars into a bankrupt company? With terms like "Net 20 years" it should be interesting....
 

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Looks like my next new truck will be an F250. F gubmit motors!:)hand

Maybe Ford can buy Allison???
 
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It's not relative....and my calculator doesn't work this early in the morning.
What IS relative is the BILLIONS that the Government WASTED that you will NEVER see again, along with the BILLIONS more that are coming up now. Keep in mind, the Government is now going to pay for GM to go in and "Retool" the manufacturing process/assembly lines, to build cars that nobody wants.
I've heard some $$ numbers on the cost of retooling, and it isn't cheap. If I wanted a "Green" car, I'd buy it from somebody that has been building them for years...Like Toyota or Honda.
But I like my trucks and SUV's and that's what I buy. GM just won't be competitive with Toyota and Honda when it comes to that type of Green vehicle and the only way to keep GM afloat is to keep throwing taxpayer $$ at them. Enough is enough already
Just hoping you would qualify your earlier comment, no more or less.

Not saying that I agree with all the has gone on with GM. I will say that GM or any other will die if trying to survive on building big trucks and SUV's. If GM can't compete with Honda and Toyota, across the board, it might as well close it's doors now. I happen to believe that GM can build green or big as well any other.
 

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Just hoping you would qualify your earlier comment, no more or less.

Not saying that I agree with all the has gone on with GM. I will say that GM or any other will die if trying to survive on building big trucks and SUV's. If GM can't compete with Honda and Toyota, across the board, it might as well close it's doors now. I happen to believe that GM can build green or big as well any other.
I don't. The only vechiles people want to buy from GM are the full size line up. Between the union contracts and imposed cafe standards they are screwed.

NOBODY wants the green POS made from GM. You'd be a fool or fan boy to take a chance on one of these union made underpowered POS cars anyway. Honda & Toyota make a superior product in this area.

GM needs to be a boutique auto MFG now and make nothing but Truck, SUV and performance. Any other business plan out of them is just optimistic kool aid stupidity. IMHO.:)grn
 
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I don't. The only vehicles people want to buy from GM are the full size line up. Between the union contracts and imposed cafe standards they are screwed.

NOBODY wants the green POS made from GM. You'd be a fool or fan boy to take a chance on one of these union made underpowered POS cars anyway. Honda & Toyota make a superior product in this area.

GM needs to be a boutique auto MFG now and make nothing but Truck, SUV and performance. Any other business plan out of them is just optimistic kool aid stupidity. IMHO.:)grn
If GM limits it's stock to Truck, SUV and performance, IMO you can say good by to the the biggest of the big 3. GM can't survive with this limited vehicle base and if GM and Americans can't compete with Honda and Toyota, IMO, we're focked.
 

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It's a BIG mess that could have been avoided that's for sure.

I think Willie Nelson should change the title of his song from "on the road again" to ON the road again to Socialism" :|err
 

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Are you kidding. The government is great at running businesses. Just look at the postal service, and Amtrack.


Oh yea, i guess those are not very good examples. But.... all those UAW members will get to keep their over paid jobs. That's got to be a plus...... right?





Darrell.
 

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If GM limits it's stock to Truck, SUV and performance, IMO you can say good by to the the biggest of the big 3. GM can't survive with this limited vehicle base and if GM and Americans can't compete with Honda and Toyota, IMO, we're focked.

Their truck and SUV plants were the only real money makers. I read this on bloomberg news.


I spent last week in Hawaii with some friends. My friend rented a chevy HHR for the week. Sure it had good gas mileage. But what a POS. Honestly why try to compete with half assed products when Honda and toyota make a superior product that isn't stigmatized by years of building crap.

If that HHR is their example of their future cars.......Well.......Bye!
 

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Just hoping you would qualify your earlier comment, no more or less.

Not saying that I agree with all the has gone on with GM. I will say that GM or any other will die if trying to survive on building big trucks and SUV's. If GM can't compete with Honda and Toyota, across the board, it might as well close it's doors now. I happen to believe that GM can build green or big as well any other.
The qualifying part of the statement, is which stimulates the economy more...Dumping $50 B into a bankrupt company, with the "Slight" possibility that in 20 years you "might" start getting some of the investment back, or taking that same amount of money and giving it back to the people that you took it from so that they can go shopping?????

Which stimulates the economy more??? 'nuff said.
 

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If GM limits it's stock to Truck, SUV and performance, IMO you can say good by to the the biggest of the big 3. GM can't survive with this limited vehicle base and if GM and Americans can't compete with Honda and Toyota, IMO, we're focked.
You're focked then.

Myself, and most Americans I would imagine, want the best bang for their buck. If I can spend $5k-$10k LESS on a "Green" car and buy it from a company that has been building them for YEARS and has the wealth of experience in it, that is exactly what I'd do. Best value for the $. Of course, I'd never buy one from any of them anyways, so it's a mute point for me personally....WHich brings me back to the other end of the spectrum. Who is gonna buy these???? Oh wait, I did hear Obama say this morning that the US Government will be buying up a bunch of the first new Green cars that GM makes (With OUR Money and no doubt paying double what it would cost from Toyota or Honda)

If you think that the American car makers are even CLOSE to the technology that the others that have been building them for years, you'd better go sniff more glue. I try to buy American, but it has to be a good product at a competitive price....And the GM Green Cars will not be.
This ENTIRE GM thing was done to appease part of the Liberal Voter Base...The UAW. Special interest groups too!! If they are going to TAKE my $$ away, they should at least redistribute it FAIRLY into something that has a chance of helping me too:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
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We're doomed:mad::mad::mad: The government could have SAVED GM AND Chrysler by just splitting up all of that money that it dumped into GM and Chrysler, to Every LEGAL US Citizen over the age of 18....Which would have EASILY stimulated the Car Sales and Economy.
It's all about Control with this Administration......
The qualifying part of the statement, is which stimulates the economy more...Dumping $50 B into a bankrupt company, with the "Slight" possibility that in 20 years you "might" start getting some of the investment back, or taking that same amount of money and giving it back to the people that you took it from so that they can go shopping?????

Which stimulates the economy more??? 'nuff said.

I forgot how much those $300 stimulus checks did to get the economy back on track, especially how many new cars people bought :)sphss

BTW, I don't disagree with you with regard to wasting 50 billion.

You're focked then.

Myself, and most Americans I would imagine, want the best bang for their buck. If I can spend $5k-$10k LESS on a "Green" car and buy it from a company that has been building them for YEARS and has the wealth of experience in it, that is exactly what I'd do. Best value for the $. Of course, I'd never buy one from any of them anyways, so it's a mute point for me personally....WHich brings me back to the other end of the spectrum. Who is gonna buy these???? Oh wait, I did hear Obama say this morning that the US Government will be buying up a bunch of the first new Green cars that GM makes (With OUR Money and no doubt paying double what it would cost from Toyota or Honda)

If you think that the American car makers are even CLOSE to the technology that the others that have been building them for years, you'd better go sniff more glue. I try to buy American, but it has to be a good product at a competitive price....And the GM Green Cars will not be.
This ENTIRE GM thing was done to appease part of the Liberal Voter Base...The UAW. Special interest groups too!! If they are going to TAKE my $$ away, they should at least redistribute it FAIRLY into something that has a chance of helping me too:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Sorry you have so little faith in American ingenuity.

Oh and BTW, it's moot point
 
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