Performance Boats Forum banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Glendale Arizona
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
O.k. as a prelude I'll say I'm no motor guy. I have managed to keep
my BBF running all this time, but probably just because It's been oil
and spark plug changes primarily.

Last time at the river I made a pass probably just 1/8 mile at WOT.
I could tell something wasn't right and it sounded like it was running
on 7 cylinders. No back firing or anything, but definitely not hitting on
all 8. Managed to limp it back to the trailer and didn't touch it again
till I got it home. Pulled the plugs and all 8 are black and fuel fouled.
Even after 3 days of sitting you could still smell fuel on them real strong.

I pulled a cold compression check and all cylinders came back at 165
psi which is about what they've been since the motor was built 7+
years ago. It took a while for the readings to come up, but again......
the motor hadn't been started and was cold.

Pulled the oil filter and cut it open and found no metal in the pleats.
Just a few little pieces of silicone from the valve covers. No metal at
all. I had just changed oil and filter and only run it twice since then.

I pulled the rocker covers and checked the play on all the rockers. It's
a flat tappet hydraulic cam and I know there's going to be a little play,
but it seemed excessive. Again no motorhead by any means, but I can
follow instructions (I think) and went about adjusting the valves.

Possibly first mistake I did it cold. Here's the method used.

Hydraulic Valve Adjustment


Pick a cylinder.
Bump the motor until the Exhaust valve starts up. Intake is now on
base circle. Loosen the intake lock nut.

WAIT a minute or so, to let the plunger relax. Twirl intake pushrod
between thumb and forefinger (hold gently) and tighten the lock nut
until you feel the pushrod stop turning. This is zero lash.

Tighten locknut 1/2~3/4 turn. Bump the motor until the Intake is
almost down. Exhaust is now on base circle. Loosen the exhaust lock
nut. WAIT a minute or so, to let the plunger relax. Twirl exhaust
pushrod between thumb and forefinger (hold gently) , etc... Tighten
locknut 1/2~3/4 turn.


They were so loose that I found myself having to put a full turn 360
degrees on the adjuster nuts before I hit zero lash. Although I thought
this seemed like an awful lot, I kept going until I had them all done.
I used the 1/2 turn after zero lash as opposed to the 3/4.

After finishing I noticed that the valve spring retainers were making
physical contact with the rocker arms. (Don't worry I wasn't stupid
enough to start it like that). Obviously something is F'd up here.

I might've screwed up the adjustment, but I don't think so. Photos are
below. Any ideas what might cause this, or am I just a dumbass? All
the polylocks ended up being the same depth within the adjuster nuts
so it's not like I screwed up a cylinder. If I did something wrong, I did
em all wrong, but once again I don't think that's the case.

Should I have started it prior to making the adjustments so ensure the
lifters were all pumped up?

The only thing I could figure out is that the lifters had bled off and it
screwed up my adjustments. However I could feel the lifters compress
and the plungers give way when going through and adjusting them.

If I did F it up, how would I get back to square one so I can give it another
go?

Contact

Contact

Poly locks all match

Oil filter pleats
 

·
Driver
Joined
·
3,195 Posts
might have floated the valves? messed up some clips, maby damaged rockers. your certain they never were like that before? does the valve/ spring have any play in it?
 

·
SLOW MEMBER
Joined
·
470 Posts
I am not a ford guy, but I dont think the valves were set correctly. I am assuming your camshaft is a hyd variety. I would start by loosening all of your rocker arms. I would get the engine on TDC number one compression stroke. Number one cylinder should have both vlaves closed. I would adjust them very gingerly untill the roller tip to valve stem contact is zero, then adjust a 1/4 to 1/2 turn more. Turn the engine over by hand 1/4 turn, and follow the firing order untill complete. I think this is the most accurate way to adjust a hyd cam.

It does make it alot easier if you remove the spark plugs before doing this.

It sounds to me like you collapsed the lifter a little, I have never been a fan of the spinning of the pushrods.

Your miss could have just been a fouled spark plug, it does happen.
 

·
Re-member
Joined
·
146 Posts
have those rockers been touching the retainers at all? it looks like they may have been kissing the tops of them. if they have then you may want to check the keepers to see if they have been moving around on the valves and showing signs of wear on the valve tips and keepers. looks to me like you need lash caps on them to give you the proper amount of clearance. my chevy did the same thing they were kissing the retainers and over time they worked the tips of the valves and then i started dropping valves. the tips of the valves would snap off. had to replace all the valves. make sure you have enough clearance between rocker and spring retainers. a set of lash caps is cheap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
686 Posts
There is a wear/polished pattern on the pushrods. see if you have gone beyond the normal pattern or not. You might have collapsed the lifters durring adjustment due to them slowly bleeding down after 2 weaks. Just an easy check. Personally I like to adjust hyd. when hot & running on a well broken in motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
686 Posts
Pat had a good thought also about contaminated oil from fuel if that is where he was going with that.
 

·
mo balls than $cents$
Joined
·
11,734 Posts
If that's a question..............the answer would be yes. Also noticed the the
rocker trunions seemed to be kind of sloppy. Not sure how much play there
should be there.
rocker trunions wear man, its a bearing. just pull em off and check em, if they have more than you're comfortable with, sell em on ebay and replace em;) you'll be out 75-80bucks tops for fresh rockers, i do that from time to time for friends:D that's why you'll never see me selling rockers here,lol.

squirt, go buy ya some zero lash speed pro lifters from summit. they'll make your motor come alive over 5krpms, plus all ya have to do is zero lash the bastards, that's it, no 1/8th turn bullshit. since you're not having to preload a lifter with the 0 lash lifters, your roller contact will look nicer and just maybe you won't be striking the retainer anymore:)bulb

i'll look up the lifter and link ya to it, dude there's no ****ing better hyd lifter in a bbf than these, i've made gobs of power in bbf's with em:)grn just spend the $$$$$ and trust me on this 1;)
 

·
mo balls than $cents$
Joined
·
11,734 Posts
check the lash after the motor is warm, rocker should not touch retainer.
x2, he needs to do mid-lift method and check those pushrod lengths, after he does the zero lash lifters of course:D
 

·
Glendale Arizona
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Thanks for the input. For some that might not know the history. The motor has run flawlessly for going on 8 seasons. I'm not the type of boater that takes it out a couple times per season either. I pretty much run it every weekend. It's got a lot of time on it and I've put lots of nitrous through it.

Here's the puzzling part to me. I know that the components are going to wear some over time, and even a flat tappet hydraulic setup might require an adjustment sometimes, but this seems excessive.

Doesn't seem likely that the lifters would all take a shit at the same time, nor that the cam would go after it's been run this long and pushrods don't shrink. That being the case where did all the slop come from.

In looking at the relationship between valve springs/keepers and rockers they must've been awfully close all this time. Yeah I adjusted them a bit and maybe not correctly due to my inexperience, but everything looks really close clearance/tolerance-wise.

I've backed everything off and will give it another go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,234 Posts
O.k. as a prelude I'll say I'm no motor guy. I have managed to keep
my BBF running all this time, but probably just because It's been oil
and spark plug changes primarily.

Last time at the river I made a pass probably just 1/8 mile at WOT.
I could tell something wasn't right and it sounded like it was running
on 7 cylinders. No back firing or anything, but definitely not hitting on
all 8. Managed to limp it back to the trailer and didn't touch it again
till I got it home. Pulled the plugs and all 8 are black and fuel fouled.
Even after 3 days of sitting you could still smell fuel on them real strong.

I pulled a cold compression check and all cylinders came back at 165
psi which is about what they've been since the motor was built 7+
years ago. It took a while for the readings to come up, but again......
the motor hadn't been started and was cold.

Pulled the oil filter and cut it open and found no metal in the pleats.
Just a few little pieces of silicone from the valve covers. No metal at
all. I had just changed oil and filter and only run it twice since then.

I pulled the rocker covers and checked the play on all the rockers. It's
a flat tappet hydraulic cam and I know there's going to be a little play,
but it seemed excessive. Again no motorhead by any means, but I can
follow instructions (I think) and went about adjusting the valves.

Possibly first mistake I did it cold. Here's the method used.

Hydraulic Valve Adjustment


Pick a cylinder.
Bump the motor until the Exhaust valve starts up. Intake is now on
base circle. Loosen the intake lock nut.

WAIT a minute or so, to let the plunger relax. Twirl intake pushrod
between thumb and forefinger (hold gently) and tighten the lock nut
until you feel the pushrod stop turning. This is zero lash.

Tighten locknut 1/2~3/4 turn. Bump the motor until the Intake is
almost down. Exhaust is now on base circle. Loosen the exhaust lock
nut. WAIT a minute or so, to let the plunger relax. Twirl exhaust
pushrod between thumb and forefinger (hold gently) , etc... Tighten
locknut 1/2~3/4 turn.

They were so loose that I found myself having to put a full turn 360
degrees on the adjuster nuts before I hit zero lash. Although I thought
this seemed like an awful lot, I kept going until I had them all done.
I used the 1/2 turn after zero lash as opposed to the 3/4.

After finishing I noticed that the valve spring retainers were making
physical contact with the rocker arms. (Don't worry I wasn't stupid
enough to start it like that). Obviously something is F'd up here.

I might've screwed up the adjustment, but I don't think so. Photos are
below. Any ideas what might cause this, or am I just a dumbass? All
the polylocks ended up being the same depth within the adjuster nuts
so it's not like I screwed up a cylinder. If I did something wrong, I did
em all wrong, but once again I don't think that's the case.

Should I have started it prior to making the adjustments so ensure the
lifters were all pumped up?

The only thing I could figure out is that the lifters had bled off and it
screwed up my adjustments. However I could feel the lifters compress
and the plungers give way when going through and adjusting them.

If I did F it up, how would I get back to square one so I can give it another
go?
I think you are overtightening the rockers by over a turn, if the lifter bottoms out, there is no hydraulic action left. The rockers should be tightened 1/2 to 3/4 turns after spring slack is felt..

Could be wrong but the contact you're experiencing is do to overtightened rockers (will act just like too short of pushrods).

I always use an oil pump primer to adjust valves on a hydro cam....Same process as you stated, but with 50# of oil pressure.

You took out all hydraulic action on the red/blue steps...

GT :)hand
 

·
Glendale Arizona
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I always use an oil pump primer to adjust valves on a hydro cam....Same process as you stated, but with 50# of oil pressure.
GT :)hand
Please elaborate. You prime one time before starting the adjustments? Or do you prime before doing each set of valves? How exactly to you make sure the lifters are completely pumped up and haven't bled down F ing up the deal?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,234 Posts
Please elaborate. You prime one time before starting the adjustments? Or do you prime for each set of valves? How exactly to you make sure the lifters are completely pumped up and haven't bled down F ing up the deal?

Thanks
Yeah, I leave the oil pump primer in the engine and back the adjustment nut off and run the drill motor until I see oil pressure. Then with the drill running adjust the nut until resistance is felt, that is "hydraulic" true zero lash, then take the 1/2 to 3/4 turn. Done.

You can do it without oil pressure, but the true hydraulic zero lash is when the slack in the pushrod is no longer felt. It is a little more hit/miss IMHO.

GT :)hand
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
What length are your pushrods? I ran into the same thing when I built my BBF...had to get longer pushrods.

When I converted my OEM heads from pedestal rockers to screw in studs I used Comp Cams pushrod checker to get the right measurement so I could order the correct lenght pushrod.

just go ahead and build that stroker motor Dan.....you know you want to!:)devil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,234 Posts
What length are your pushrods? I ran into the same thing when I built my BBF...had to get longer pushrods.

When I converted my OEM heads from pedestal rockers to screw in studs I used Comp Cams pushrod checker to get the right measurement so I could order the correct lenght pushrod.

just go ahead and build that stroker motor Dan.....you know you want to!:)devil
Yeah, but seven or eight seasons? That would just be weird IMO..

GT :)hand
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top