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Boatless Member :(
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Discussion Starter #1
How can you tell what is the best strength. How do you balance strength with weight?

Even if you pick say H's with 6.135in'' there is many many options varying from prices of $300 to $900 and I can't really tell any difference between them. Alloys are the same but weights are different. Does weight drive price? Is the strength compromised with the reduced weight?

Or we can just get the point, what do you guys run in SS-spec motors?
 

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A lot depends on what your trying to achieve with your engine! When it comes to rods I prefer Carrillo's with SPS Carr bolts, mainly because I've run them for ever with no issues!!!!!

My opinion only!!!
 

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steelcomp was here
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How can you tell what is the best strength. How do you balance strength with weight?

Even if you pick say H's with 6.135in'' there is many many options varying from prices of $300 to $900 and I can't really tell any difference between them. Alloys are the same but weights are different. Does weight drive price? Is the strength compromised with the reduced weight?

Or we can just get the point, what do you guys run in SS-spec motors?
Is there a spec on the rod? Never built a SS spec motor, but if I did, I think I'd feel safe using just about any reputable forged H beam rod with a good bolt. Kinda depends on the piston and rpm. Price has a lot to do with label. I can get the same rod, from the same manufacturer anywhere from under $600, to over $800 for a BB Chev, depending on who's name is on it (quality rod). If you look at I beam rods, Crower will work with a customer on building a rod for the application.
 

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You can get schooled on damn near anything around here. Just ask a question, make a statement, etc.
Wags
you can't say that in here or you'll get dq'd. and don't take a hand off that wheel or you'll get dq'd; bein in the pits is no excuse. and flip that visor down or you'll get dq'd... or up.. whatever it is, do it the other way or you'll get dq'd...

sorry, no thread jack intended. carry on. or get dq'd...
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Is there a spec on the rod? Never built a SS spec motor, but if I did, I think I'd feel safe using just about any reputable forged H beam rod with a good bolt. Kinda depends on the piston and rpm. Price has a lot to do with label. I can get the same rod, from the same manufacturer anywhere from under $600, to over $800 for a BB Chev, depending on who's name is on it (quality rod). If you look at I beam rods, Crower will work with a customer on building a rod for the application.
It just has to be OEM or Steel. Doesn't specify an alloy... Pretty open to shapes it seems...

53.10 Connecting Rods.
Any stock OEM or steel aftermarket rod may be used. It may be ground, polished, bushed and shot peened. Oil holes in the small end of the connecting rod may be added. Rod length = 6.135 +/- 0.010.
 

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CP-Carrillo
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Carrillo

My suggestion is to contact the manufacturers and ask them that question. Although customer service and price could easily modify your opinion, facts are facts and product history says it all. If it's a shelf rod, those are often designed for many race applications and not designed specifically for your application. That alone could mean the rod is heavier than you really need it to be.

Unfortunately to have a custom rod made for certain types of racing costs more, but it allows the design to be calculated for exact usage. Then, to take it a step further, designing a complete package is advantageous because you can optimize everything around each other....pins for instance, can be smaller in diameter, shorter, lighter, of course used with the latest forged side relief piston forgings ("X-Style"). Small end widths on the rod can be narrower at that point, which in turn allows the beam to be narrowed...

One thing we've worked hard on the last 3 years is optimizing complete packages from Pro Stock to NASCAR.

For inquiries on Carrillo Rods, you can call Richard Bachelor at 949.567.9000 and tell him you're a PB member and Piston Maker referred you.

Also, Carrillo offers reconditioning programs for rods and they can be sent back in for mag, bend and twist evaluation, re-hone, etc.....

Company history/tour: Inside CP Carrillo - Motocross Videos - Vital MX

Product info (pg 66 - 106): http://cp-carrillo.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=yrZ5T5U6dHU=&tabid=82
 

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How can you tell what is the best strength. How do you balance strength with weight?

Even if you pick say H's with 6.135in'' there is many many options varying from prices of $300 to $900 and I can't really tell any difference between them. Alloys are the same but weights are different. Does weight drive price? Is the strength compromised with the reduced weight?

Or we can just get the point, what do you guys run in SS-spec motors?
Dude...You will NEVER get a real answer here that you can take to your machine shop to tell them what should be done. What you WILL get is every kind of half-answer that will still leave you guessing.If you cant find a reputable guy to guide you who you can talk to in person, I suggest asking the crowd from CFW in the v-drive section. They are real good guys who dont have an ego to massage-JUST MY OPINION!
 

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Dude...You will NEVER get a real answer here that you can take to your machine shop to tell them what should be done. What you WILL get is every kind of half-answer that will still leave you guessing.If you cant find a reputable guy to guide you who you can talk to in person, I suggest asking the crowd from CFW in the v-drive section. They are real good guys who dont have an ego to massage-JUST MY OPINION!
After reaing this thread I can't see where he got a half baked answer. Its all pretty simple really.
Low end scale: Scat, Eagle, K1, or Engine Pro.... no lower or you'll wish you hadn't.
We all could list every rod top to bottom from ProCrap to Carrillo and Lentz. What good would the time take. Think the OP is interested in a set of 2500.00 rods. If he was, I doubt the question would even get asked.

If he is interested in a rod in the 900.00 range, then he should ask that specific question. Not why do rods run from 300 to 900.

AND THE ALLOYS ARE NOT ALL THE SAME REGARDLESS WHAT THEY TELL YOU.

4340 has gotten to be a very ambiguous term. Like "up" or "old" or my favorite "expensive"



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After reaing this thread I can't see where he got a half baked answer. Its all pretty simple really.
Low end scale: Scat, Eagle, K1, or Engine Pro.... no lower or you'll wish you hadn't.
We all could list every rod top to bottom from ProCrap to Carrillo and Lentz. What good would the time take. Think the OP is interested in a set of 2500.00 rods. If he was, I doubt the question would even get asked.

If he is interested in a rod in the 900.00 range, then he should ask that specific question. Not why do rods run from 300 to 900.

AND THE ALLOYS ARE NOT ALL THE SAME REGARDLESS WHAT THEY TELL YOU.

4340 has gotten to be a very ambiguous term. Like "up" or "old" or my favorite "expensive"
Like I said NO REAL ANSWER! GIve a single choice that you think will suit his needs and THAT is an opinion. listing a variety of options is not much help to non-machinists who dont have the schooling to sort it out. If you need more info to give that opinion,then ask him for it. Once again-JUST MY OPINION.
And I think thats what he wants from you....Not endless options
 

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Like I said NO REAL ANSWER! GIve a single choice that you think will suit his needs and THAT is an opinion. listing a variety of options is not much help to non-machinists who dont have the schooling to sort it out. If you need more info to give that opinion,then ask him for it. Once again-JUST MY OPINION.
And I think thats what he wants from you....Not endless options
Carrillo.
Think thats what he wants to hear.
A budget would be more than helpfull here. Intended HP, and use wouldn't hurt to know.



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Carrillo.
Think thats what he wants to hear.
A budget would be more than helpfull here. Intended HP, and use wouldn't hurt to know.
Touche-Your right ,but he might not know to give that info-just sayin'
I know from my time on this site that you know your stuff,but sometimes it's hard to get a clear answer out of you.You just seem to know more than most of us.(more than me at least)And give so many options it can leave a person with as many questions as before.I always try to absorb your info,but a direct opinion is much easier to work with.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I was basically trying to price components for an SS motor.

I've built some engines in the past, but I didn't do the part selection.

I understand meteorology pretty well (taken a few courses on it) and I'm also a engineer/machinist but the information provided on these websites are useless to me.

They give an advertised RPM range, nothing about load or horse power. The material is generally the same every time which I don't really trust and the only difference is the grams which tells me that some have more material than others.

I know so little about connecting rods that if there was a 200 page book I'd read it so that is what I meant by "getting schooled".

If anyone that's built an SS motor wants to tell me what they use and why it would be appreciated.
 

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I know. Some of us can be finicky little bastards. You should see the look on my doctor's face when I tell I hurt. Now that guy is completely unreasonable for what he gets paid.

But I will try to make this very simple.
If its a rod for a SS, then get a set of Eagle H beams with ARP 2000 bolts and try as hard as you can to make enough HP to tear the rod in 2. If you manage, congradulations. You have now built and destroyed the most powerfull SS engines in history.



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steelcomp was here
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I was basically trying to price components for an SS motor.

I've built some engines in the past, but I didn't do the part selection.

I understand meteorology pretty well (taken a few courses on it) and I'm also a engineer/machinist but the information provided on these websites are useless to me.

They give an advertised RPM range, nothing about load or horse power. The material is generally the same every time which I don't really trust and the only difference is the grams which tells me that some have more material than others.

I know so little about connecting rods that if there was a 200 page book I'd read it so that is what I meant by "getting schooled".

If anyone that's built an SS motor wants to tell me what they use and why it would be appreciated.
If you want specific answers, you need to ask specific questions, or give specific parameters and definitions of what you're looking for.

What's an "SS" motor?
Are we supposed to look up every ss engine built to understand what that means? (I don't mean that sarcastically)
What's the basic configuration?
What's the estimated HP?
What piston?
What compression?
What RPM range?
What's the budget or what "level" of engine? Competitive, PRO, unlimited budget??? Makes a difference.
Can they be piston guided?
Do they have to be standard pin dia's?

The reason you'll get "general" answers is that a lot of the choice is based on preference. Like I said before; 600hp, 7500rpm, just about any of the "good" import H beams will work with a good rod bolt. The requirements for a rod are more rpm and piston-weight related than HP. If you're building a 427 with a 6.135 rod, the piston will be more critical than the rod, IMO. That piston has a tall pin height and they tend to be heavy by design, so getting the lightest pistoin you can find will be critical, and be a factor for your rod choice.

I also mentioned specifically that Crower will work with you on a custom I beam rod, spec'd for your specific application/rpm/piston weight/HP, etc.
 

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If you want specific answers, you need to ask specific questions, or give specific parameters and definitions of what you're looking for.

What's an "SS" motor?
Are we supposed to look up every ss engine built to understand what that means? (I don't mean that sarcastically)
What's the basic configuration?
What's the estimated HP?
What piston?
What compression?
What RPM range?
What's the budget or what "level" of engine? Competitive, PRO, unlimited budget??? Makes a difference.
Can they be piston guided?
Do they have to be standard pin dia's?

The reason you'll get "general" answers is that a lot of the choice is based on preference. Like I said before; 600hp, 7500rpm, just about any of the "good" import H beams will work with a good rod bolt. The requirements for a rod are more rpm and piston-weight related than HP. If you're building a 427 with a 6.135 rod, the piston will be more critical than the rod, IMO. That piston has a tall pin height and they tend to be heavy by design, so getting the lightest pistoin you can find will be critical, and be a factor for your rod choice.

I also mentioned specifically that Crower will work with you on a custom I beam rod, spec'd for your specific application/rpm/piston weight/HP, etc.
See. You sound just like my freek'n doctor.
I'm paying you all this money and you ask me WHERE IT HURTS? WTF!!!!!



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Discussion Starter #17
If you want specific answers, you need to ask specific questions, or give specific parameters and definitions of what you're looking for.

What's an "SS" motor?
Are we supposed to look up every ss engine built to understand what that means? (I don't mean that sarcastically)
What's the basic configuration?
What's the estimated HP?
What piston?
What compression?
What RPM range?
What's the budget or what "level" of engine? Competitive, PRO, unlimited budget??? Makes a difference.
Can they be piston guided?
Do they have to be standard pin dia's?

The reason you'll get "general" answers is that a lot of the choice is based on preference. Like I said before; 600hp, 7500rpm, just about any of the "good" import H beams will work with a good rod bolt. The requirements for a rod are more rpm and piston-weight related than HP. If you're building a 427 with a 6.135 rod, the piston will be more critical than the rod, IMO. That piston has a tall pin height and they tend to be heavy by design, so getting the lightest pistoin you can find will be critical, and be a factor for your rod choice.

I also mentioned specifically that Crower will work with you on a custom I beam rod, spec'd for your specific application/rpm/piston weight/HP, etc.
Inboard Racing - Superstock class. It's a spec class everyone basically runs the same stuff besides components that don't really add power...

Block:
V-8 GM block 427 shortdeck (I'll probably get a Merlin or Dart) Bore and Stroke 4.318 x 3.776
Pistons:
GM Head: 267207
Dart Head: 262808
Heads:
Chevrolet Part #3946072 with casting #3946074
Chevrolet Part #14011076 with casting #14011077
Chevrolet Part #6260482 with casting #14096188 or 6272990
Chevrolet Gen V head Part #14096802 with casting #14097088
Dart Part #19100070
Connection Rods:
Any stock OEM or steel aftermarket rod may be used. It may be ground, polished, bushed and shot peened. Oil holes in the
small end of the connecting rod may be added. Rod length = 6.135 +/- 0.010
Intake Manifold:
GM part #3933163 or 6269318
Carbs:
53.15 Carburetor. Any American made carburetor having 4 venturis. The carburetor throttle plate shall have no more than four holes. If throttle bore
restrictors are used there shall be no more than one per hole and must be located in the throttle plate area. Those holes shall be no larger than 1 11/16”
(1.693”) inside diameter. A wedge, spacer, adapter, bracket, gasket(s) or any combination thereof shall be permitted. Maximum distance allowed
between the carburetor and intake as measured at the thin edge of the opening(s) is 1.500”
Cam:
53.13.1 Camshafts. Any non-roller type camshaft may be used. Any follower constructed entirely of steel except roller type may be used, but cam
face diameter must be of stock dimension. No hard faced cams are permitted. Lifter diameter is (.842 ± .003). Lifter face may not have more than .010
convex shape. No mushroom lifters allowed.

I don't know how much hp this is, my guess is 800hp at 8,000 rpm? I've been lied to my entire life how much hp engines make, you know how it is asking people with 55mph jet boats how much power they got and how fast they go.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Like I said. A stock length Eagle with a ARP 2000 bolt. First problem is making enough power to break the rod. Then you have to climb in the boat and flat foot enough to use the power that will break the rod.

You do those 2 things, you come see me and we will talk about a full engine sponsorship with whatever rod you like.
Somehow I missed that post had to go back to read it... Thanks :))THumbsUp
 

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Icy, I know of three engines that have run well in the SS class with Eagle H beam rods. As was said by Steelcomp the piston is the issue. Being that there are only a few pistons you can use, that becomes a little bit of a non issue. Depending on which head you plan to use may make a slight difference as to which piston would work better. I think the two pistons are the JE piston and the SRP piston. From my understanding their is a slight difference in the dome and one does not work quite as well in some of the heads. (You might want to talk to some of the SS racers to verify that as well as get the details as to which works with which). At that point you just have to worry about bearings, crank, and rings. From there it is all about machining for it to go together. Then there is the valvetrain, and I won't even try to get into that.;)

Can you save weight with another rod? Sure. Would it make as much of a difference as the right carb spacer? NO! My point is that going with a scat or eagle h-beam rod would work just fine to get you going down the road. As you run side by side for second and wish that you just had three more HP, then worry about a different rod. (which if that were to happen, flip your boat back up-side-down and freshen its bottom as it would do more than a rod change). See, it is a never ending cycle. LOL

Paul
 
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