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Who Voted How on F-22 Fighter Spending
Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:10 PM

The 58-40 roll call Tuesday by which the Senate voted Tuesday to halt further production of the Air Force's missile-eluding F-22 Raptor fighter jets.

A "yes" vote is a vote in favor of an amendment to halt further production of the planes.

Voting yes were 42 Democrats, 15 Republicans and 1 independent.
Voting no were 14 Democrats, 25 Republicans and 1 independent.

There are no vacancies in the 100-member Senate.

ALABAMA
Sessions (R), No; Shelby (R), Yes.

ALASKA
Begich (D), No; Murkowski (R), No.

ARIZONA
Kyl (R), Yes; McCain (R), Yes.

ARKANSAS
Lincoln (D), Yes; Pryor (D), Yes.

CALIFORNIA
Boxer (D), No; Feinstein (D), No.

COLORADO
Bennet (D), Yes; Udall (D), Yes.

CONNECTICUT
Dodd (D), No; Lieberman (ID), No.

DELAWARE
Carper (D), Yes; Kaufman (D), Yes.

FLORIDA
Martinez (R), No; Nelson (D), Yes.

GEORGIA
Chambliss (R), No; Isakson (R), No.

HAWAII
Akaka (D), No; Inouye (D), No.

IDAHO
Crapo (R), No; Risch (R), No.

ILLINOIS
Burris (D), Yes; Durbin (D), Yes.

INDIANA
Bayh (D), Yes; Lugar (R), Yes.

IOWA
Grassley (R), No; Harkin (D), Yes.

KANSAS
Brownback (R), No; Roberts (R), No.

KENTUCKY
Bunning (R), No; McConnell (R), No.

LOUISIANA
Landrieu (D), Yes; Vitter (R), No.

MAINE
Collins (R), No; Snowe (R), No.

MARYLAND
Cardin (D), Yes; Mikulski (D), Not Voting.

MASSACHUSETTS
Kennedy (D), Not Voting; Kerry (D), Yes.

MICHIGAN
Levin (D), Yes; Stabenow (D), Yes.

MINNESOTA
Franken (D), Yes; Klobuchar (D), Yes.

MISSISSIPPI
Cochran (R), No; Wicker (R), No.

MISSOURI
Bond (R), Yes; McCaskill (D), Yes.

MONTANA
Baucus (D), No; Tester (D), No.

NEBRASKA
Johanns (R), No; Nelson (D), Yes.

NEVADA
Ensign (R), Yes; Reid (D), Yes.

NEW HAMPSHIRE
Gregg (R), Yes; Shaheen (D), No.

NEW JERSEY
Lautenberg (D), Yes; Menendez (D), Yes.

NEW MEXICO
Bingaman (D), No; Udall (D), No.

NEW YORK
Gillibrand (D), Yes; Schumer (D), Yes.

NORTH CAROLINA
Burr (R), No; Hagan (D), Yes.

NORTH DAKOTA
Conrad (D), Yes; Dorgan (D), Yes.

OHIO
Brown (D), Yes; Voinovich (R), Yes.

OKLAHOMA
Coburn (R), Yes; Inhofe (R), No.

OREGON
Merkley (D), Yes; Wyden (D), Yes.

PENNSYLVANIA
Casey (D), Yes; Specter (D), Yes.

RHODE ISLAND
Reed (D), Yes; Whitehouse (D), Yes.

SOUTH CAROLINA
DeMint (R), Yes; Graham (R), Yes.

SOUTH DAKOTA
Johnson (D), Yes; Thune (R), No.

TENNESSEE
Alexander (R), Yes; Corker (R), Yes.

TEXAS
Cornyn (R), No; Hutchison (R), No.

UTAH
Bennett (R), No; Hatch (R), No.

VERMONT
Leahy (D), Yes; Sanders (I), Yes.

VIRGINIA
Warner (D), Yes; Webb (D), Yes.

WASHINGTON
Cantwell (D), No; Murray (D), No.

WEST VIRGINIA
Byrd (D), No; Rockefeller (D), Yes.

WISCONSIN
Feingold (D), Yes; Kohl (D), Yes.

WYOMING
Barrasso (R), Yes; Enzi (R), Yes.
 

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I'm no fan of cutting defense, but the program was done a while ago... the JSF should have taken over by now.
 

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I'm surprised at some of the votes. McCain for one but especially our liberal California senators voting no. :)sphss:confused: I am guessing that most of the components of the aircraft are built in Ca.
 

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Any estimates on how many just lost their jobs. When the man said he was going to create 600,000 new jobs, I had no idea he meant claim processors at the un-employment dept.
 

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Nevada, Nellis Air Force Base is the F-22's training grounds, Amazing that Ensign (R) voted Yes to cut budget along with Idiot Reed (D).....time to boot his sorry self out of office....not just for this but for his other immoral antic's included....... :|err
 

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Any estimates on how many just lost their jobs. When the man said he was going to create 600,000 new jobs, I had no idea he meant claim processors at the un-employment dept.
That's one of the problems. Cutting spending translates to cutting some jobs. Increase spending creates some jobs. I'm not saying it's wrong or right just part of the way it works.
 

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Nevada, Nellis Air Force Base is the F-22's training grounds, Amazing that Ensign (R) voted Yes to cut budget along with Idiot Reed (D).....time to boot his sorry self out of office....not just for this but for his other immoral antic's included....... :|err
"Immoral antics"? Please explain. Sounds like he's doing his red headed cousin.:D
 

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Any estimates on how many just lost their jobs. When the man said he was going to create 600,000 new jobs, I had no idea he meant claim processors at the un-employment dept.
I believe I heard 20K jobs will be cut. Plus all the small businesses that will lose revenue.

Sadly the taxpayer's won't see any benefit as the money will just be reapporpriated to some idiotic social program. That's what I'd like to see is where they send the money.
 

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"Immoral antics"? Please explain. Sounds like he's doing his red headed cousin.:D
He might as well be...

Lots of negative stuff for someone in his position...affair, pay off to the family for not talking, giving the husband and wife a job and then booting them after the affair...just a mess...amazing how some of these people act while in office, you would think they were setting themselves up for self destruct mode.....but the truth is that they are power hungry and think they are invincible...some actually invincible as we see everyday in our political world......both side are guilty...can't trust 90% of them..

It's all about ME in their eyes....
 

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That's one of the problems. Cutting spending translates to cutting some jobs. Increase spending creates some jobs. I'm not saying it's wrong or right just part of the way it works.
]

Expanding the bureaucracy does not add to the GDP, increase opportunity, small business, add to the tax base, pay into anything to grow this country.....it takes more out of your pocket........business and free markets and production things like fighter planes, drilling now, nuke production, burger joints, boat companies, beer companies, service providers contribute to growth and prosperity. We need planes. Build them!
 

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The AZ senators always vote against programs that don't have ties to Az aerospace... generally that means Raytheon in AZ. Look who killed the tanker deal a few years back. MCCAIN. That was a corrupt Boeing project that may now end up in the hands of a conglomerate headed by AIRBUS. Knowing a little bit about the F 22, it is a platform ready to counter any of the current threats and probably most ofthe postulated threats. For those that think JSF is the answer, it has a great deal of capability but not F 22 like capability... especially in the aerial combat arena. The problem Congress has, money notwithstanding is that they are not prepared to fight tomorrws war. They want to focus on Taliban wars and forget about China, Korea Russia and growing nations with relatively lethal inventories. Much better to use F 22 money to pay for abortions on illegal immagrants. I call it ignorance.
 

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The AZ senators always vote against programs that don't have ties to Az aerospace... generally that means Raytheon in AZ. Look who killed the tanker deal a few years back. MCCAIN. That was a corrupt Boeing project that may now end up in the hands of a conglomerate headed by AIRBUS. Knowing a little bit about the F 22, it is a platform ready to counter any of the current threats and probably most ofthe postulated threats. For those that think JSF is the answer, it has a great deal of capability but not F 22 like capability... especially in the aerial combat arena. The problem Congress has, money notwithstanding is that they are not prepared to fight tomorrws war. They want to focus on Taliban wars and forget about China, Korea Russia and growing nations with relatively lethal inventories. Much better to use F 22 money to pay for abortions on illegal immagrants. I call it ignorance.
Mostly agreed on air to air capability.

F-22 is 10-1 or better against anything in the sky or on any drawing board today.

JSF is predicted to be 3-5 to 1 Max (when we see it prove this out Ill feel better)

I do think we need to BEGIN - not fully switch to - UAV technology.

Imagine full size UAV's capable of sustained 15G turns with better weapons payload, greater loiter time, and having THOUSANDS of them vs hundreds of planes.

Take F22 technology (well over decade old now) and scale it to many more UAV's and use all this with the 22's, 35's 15's tankers & carriers in a coordinated way.- this is the future.

If the shit hits the fan the F-22 will be back.


UD
 

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I like your vision for future warfighting capability. Below is the Journal article on F 22. You express a keen awareness of requirements for future warfighting capability. I do not believe you can fire up a production line quick enough if the shit hits the fan. As good as UAS technology is, I am not sure, short of a beyond visual range engagement, that a UAS will ever be capable of engaging in the visual arena. Probably not necessary with the sensor technology we have. Knowing a little about the USMC variant of JSF, it's going to be a LO weapons hauler with limited (self defense primarilly) air-air capability. I hope the other service variants can fill the gap for the Marine variant. The bottom line is a bunch of defense industry jobs will be lost with termination of this contract. Hopefully, the green initiatives proposed by the big O will produce jobs for these folks. Lockheed did have it's 2nd straight quarter of losses this year. That has to make obama happy.

Wall Street Journal
July 22, 2009
Pg. 14
Grounding The F-22

President Obama claimed a triumph for spending rectitude yesterday after the Senate stripped out funding for the Air Force’s F-22 Raptor fighter. Credit $1.75 billion in savings, or a third of a percentage point of the overall 2010 defense request. Only a couple of trillion more, and Mr. Obama will have a balanced budget.
The Senate vote defers to an Administration’s assessment of defense priorities. In the budget sent up to the Hill in April, Defense Secretary Robert Gates made hard choices. Among them was his decision to kill the stealthy F-22, bar none the best fighter jet in the skies, and instead to focus resources on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
We happen to think the U.S. needs this program to keep its superiority in the air for the next three or so decades. Designed for air-to-air combat and to fly at supersonic speeds without being detected by radar, the F-22 gets dismissed as a “relic” of the Cold War. But not all conflicts are likely to be against inferior, unconventional enemies. China and Russia are building up their conventional forces, for example.
Congress might have challenged Mr. Obama’s choices on such strategic grounds. Aside from the F-22, the Administration wants to cut missile defenses, shrink the Navy and over the long-run reduce spending on defense, when the demands on American forces are greater than ever.
But instead we were treated to the familiar sight of 535 procurers in chief out to save their pet projects.Senator Saxby Chambliss, a Republican from Georgia, got an amendment into the budget to buy seven more F-22s and keep the Marietta, Ga. production line open. Faced with a veto threat from the White House, the Senate removed the spending line in a cross-party vote assisted by Republican John McCain.
One thing for sure is that the F-22 vote isn’t a sign of new fiscal discipline. Congress continues to bust the budget on everything except defense, most especially with its push for government health care for all. Meanwhile, the Air Force will have to live with 187 F-22s when the next adversary arrives.
 

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We will not be needing them, since we do not have a warmonger in the #1 job anymore.

So sayeth the current placeholder anyhow.
 

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Well, since the Pentagon has been saying for a while they don't want the F-22, and the only reason it kept being propped up was local reps who don't want the jobs gone, I'm glad they stopped it. I'm tired of multi-multi billions being dumped into stuff the military doesn't want because the local reps want the jobs to remain in their districts. While I feel for the people involved (I know what it's like to be canned during a tough market), they companied will retool and the workers will move onto other projects or jobs, just as they always have.
 

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I like your vision for future warfighting capability. Below is the Journal article on F 22. You express a keen awareness of requirements for future warfighting capability. I do not believe you can fire up a production line quick enough if the shit hits the fan. As good as UAS technology is, I am not sure, short of a beyond visual range engagement, that a UAS will ever be capable of engaging in the visual arena. Probably not necessary with the sensor technology we have. Knowing a little about the USMC variant of JSF, it's going to be a LO weapons hauler with limited (self defense primarilly) air-air capability. I hope the other service variants can fill the gap for the Marine variant. The bottom line is a bunch of defense industry jobs will be lost with termination of this contract. Hopefully, the green initiatives proposed by the big O will produce jobs for these folks. Lockheed did have it's 2nd straight quarter of losses this year. That has to make obama happy.
Agreed on startup time it can take a long time but hopefully well have 2nd gen jsf's up. Remember it can carry twice as much fuel as a 16 all internal.

I'm also bummed about the jobs.

I see very quickly the global hawk sized birds getting BVR attack, but likely the F-22's will get used as front line Kc-135 rivet joints, or mini awacs to coordinate massive numbers of lesser, but highly capable craft and Naval deployed missiles and rail gun weaponry - I think they are in the 64Mega joule range now with 5 firings a day.

Interesting- I dont think 187 is enough but Schwartz does.

Gen Schwartz thinks 187 is good enough for conflict with one major enemy. I am curious as to why in his mind there is only a 56 plane delta between being able to engage 2 major combatants.

"I am personally convinced that 187 [F-22 Raptors] is enough for a single major campaign."
—Gen. Norton Schwartz, explaining that his required force of 243 Raptors to meet two major combat operations can be dropped to only 187 to confront a single MCO, speaking with airmen at Elmendorf AFB, Alaska, July 6, 2009.

UD
 

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The cost of an F22 according to Wikipedia is around 138 million.

That means for one billion dollars you could buy 7.24 F22s.


Compared to the now thousands of billions the government has spent much of which cannot be accounted for on bailouts, 10 billion for another 70 or 20 billion for another 140 F22's doesn't seem like such a big deal. More of a publicity stunt by Congress in the media guise of "saving money" than anything else imo. A bunch of bs frankly. Congress doesn't care about wasting 20 billion on many things any more than I care about wasting and extra square of shit paper.

If they were serious about saving money they'd attack meaningful expenditure problems. Such as the illegals. Such as the ongoing small wars that continue to eat billions a month.

In the long term strategic outlook Obama will make Clinton look like a picnicker in military spending cuts, while at the same time giving dough away we don't have to social programs for the good of all including those who sit on their asses or are residing here illegally.

Hopefully none of our significant potential adversaries will decide to attack us with thousands of advanced airplanes in the future and we will not have the need to defend our nation from same. Something tells me 187 airplanes won't stretch very far in a large war. We should build both more F22's and thousands of the smaller planes imo. Of course wtf do I know, with my great foresight I chose the recreational marine industry to make a living. :rolleyes:
 
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