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Why Collective Bargaining Is Bad - Howard Rich - Townhall Conservative


"A decade ago, when our national debt stood at a “mere” $5.6 trillion, the federal government was already dramatically overpaying its employees to perform all sorts of non-core functions.
According to the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, compensation for the average federal position in 2000 exceeded compensation for the average private sector job by $30,415 – a sizable gap that has since exploded to $61,998. Now the average federal employee’s compensation totals $123,409 – or more than twice the average private sector salary."
 

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Federal employees don't get to collectively bargain, so how does your post prove anything other than you do not understand the situation?:)hand
 

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One way or another all deals with government workers need to be renegotiated. There is absolutely no way in hell these parasites should make so much more than private sector workers.
 

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Federal employees don't get to collectively bargain, so how does your post prove anything other than you do not understand the situation?:)hand
That's right. Federal employees cannot collective bargain. Infact they cannot unionize either. For the same reasons state employees should not be able to. And this is why the states are doing what they are doing. I asked this question in another thread but would like to hear the answer. Would you support legislation in states that wanted to make thier state a Right to Work State ?
 

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Federal employees don't get to collectively bargain, so how does your post prove anything other than you do not understand the situation?:)hand
Yes, the writer of that article made a mishmash of state and federal issues.
It's up to us, the voters, to vote in people who are willing to say no, regardless of whether there is a union or not.
 

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Federal pay varies greatly depending on agency and location. Some agencies workers are grossly underpaid when compared to their local private sector counterparts, while others (that in many cases should not even exist) are overpaid. The problem is not the pay and benefits of the avg federal workers, who (unlike many state and local employees) pay out of pocket for much of the cost of their benefits. The problem is the high executive pay scale that the federal bureaucrats are on and the fact that there are way too many of them, in way too many agencies.
Steveone, I usually agree with you and disagree with Ram, but Ram is correct. Federal employees are not allowed to collective bargain, so issues involving collective bargaining have nothing to do with federal employees. Thus the point that you are making above is valid only for state and local workers.
 

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Collective barganing got Calif into the finincal mess we are up to our eyeballs in now. Jerry Moonbeam started it during his first term and it went down hill from there. Since politicans have nothing to lose and everything to gain using taxpayer's money as the barganing chip and trading union votes for endorsements in the next election cycle only the taxpayer gets stuck with the finincal responsibility for eternety, long after the deal making politican has been termed out, defeated or recalled. Such was the case with Grey Davis, who BTW was Moonbean's Chief of Staff and were very close friends going back to college days and I believe were room mates in college. Davis in exchange for the Prison Guard Union's endorsement and votes, gave them a 30% wage increase in the dead of night. No legislative vote, no ballot proposition, just a giftwrapped 30% pay raise. Grey Davis is long gone and regulated to the trash heap of history where he belongs but we are stuck with the aftermath of bad deals made for endorsements, dollars and votes. So there, boys and girls is exactly why collective barganing is a bad idea for taxpayers and citizens with public service unions. On a side note look for Moonbeam to try and redeem his buddy's tarnished reputation in his third term.
 

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Federal pay varies greatly depending on agency and location. Some agencies workers are grossly underpaid when compared to their local private sector counterparts, while others (that in many cases should not even exist) are overpaid. The problem is not the pay and benefits of the avg federal workers, who (unlike many state and local employees) pay out of pocket for much of the cost of their benefits. The problem is the high executive pay scale that the federal bureaucrats are on and the fact that there are way too many of them, in way too many agencies.
Steveone, I usually agree with you and disagree with Ram, but Ram is correct. Federal employees are not allowed to collective bargain, so issues involving collective bargaining have nothing to do with federal employees. Thus the point that you are making above is valid only for state and local workers.
Going back many many years the benefits of government employment was no layoffs, better benefit packages, secduled payraises and total job security in exchange for a slightly less pay scale than private sector jobs. Such is not the case today.
 

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It's up to us, the voters, to vote in people who are willing to say no, regardless of whether there is a union or not.
Yes but that is very hard to do when the unions have the right to walk out on the state or a business and essentialy drive you out of business if they don't get what they want. Eventually the owner of a business or a state legislature and governor have to give in if they want to stay in business or get public services going again. then they have to raise the cost of thier products or tax's to cover it. They can only let the trash pile up so high on the streets, etc. Nothing more than legalized extorsion disguised as collective bargaining. Been there and done that. We will fire every employee and shut the business down, sell of the inventory, equipment, properties and building before we ever let the union back in.
 

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Marvin, I am a member of a labor union. Do you think I would say "yes?" For that you get two "little Marvs" instead of your usual one.:)sphss:)sphss:D
So you don't think a person should have the right to apply for a job without having to be in a union. Sorry you can't work here unless you are in the union, And if your not in the union you can't work here. Yep you talk about workers rights but only the rights under the union. I thought you were all about fairness and workers rights. Guess not when it's in your best interest.:)hand:)hand:)hand
 

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Going back many many years the benefits of government employment was no layoffs, better benefit packages, secduled payraises and total job security in exchange for a slightly less pay scale than private sector jobs. Such is not the case today.
True. In the late 90s there were federal layoffs and being politically incorrect can get you fired from the federal government now...
Like I said, pay varies from agency to agency and there are still some agencies that pay many of their professionals less than their area's private sector piers and a lot less than their state and local gov equivalents...
 

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So you don't think a person should have the right to apply for a job without having to be in a union. Sorry you can't work here unless you are in the union, And if your not in the union you can't work here. Yep you talk about workers rights but only the rights under the union. I thought you were all about fairness and workers rights. Guess not when it's in your best interest.:)hand:)hand:)hand
You bring up valid points for "right to work" Marvin, but here is the way I see it. For unions to work, everyone has to be on board. Look at unions in rtw states. They are pretty much irrelevant. So passing any rtw law is a nail in the coffin of unions, and I don't support that. Unions may at times overstep their bounds, but are a necessary evil that do usually provide better compensation and working environment for their members. When I asked you earlier if you would pay your employees minimum wage if you could, you replied no. There are a lot of business owners that would love to pay their employees as little as possible, and that is someyhing that unions fight against.

Look at history Marvin. Unions have been the driving force behind the 40 hour work week, overtime pay, decent wages, the minimum wage, safety laws, and similar things that benefit employees. None of these things existed before unions. And before you say that unions were necessary in the past, but are not necessary now because all the employee protection laws have been passed, you really think business would not continue to push to rescind these laws? Without the unions to keep fighting for workers, their voices would go largely unheard.
 

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You bring up valid points for "right to work" Marvin, but here is the way I see it. For unions to work, everyone has to be on board. Look at unions in rtw states. They are pretty much irrelevant. So passing any rtw law is a nail in the coffin of unions, and I don't support that. Unions may at times overstep their bounds, but are a necessary evil that do usually provide better compensation and working environment for their members. When I asked you earlier if you would pay your employees minimum wage if you could, you replied no. There are a lot of business owners that would love to pay their employees as little as possible, and that is someyhing that unions fight against.

Look at history Marvin. Unions have been the driving force behind the 40 hour work week, overtime pay, decent wages, the minimum wage, safety laws, and similar things that benefit employees. None of these things existed before unions. And before you say that unions were necessary in the past, but are not necessary now because all the employee protection laws have been passed, you really think business would not continue to push to rescind these laws? Without the unions to keep fighting for workers, their voices would go largely unheard.

Psst, Hey RR, step into the 21st century!:)hand:)hand

The truth is that Unions have become the pied piper for business, and economies both local and National.
I do not expect you to see that from your' view looking out from the window of your local, but it is the ugly truth.

If you have skills, and a work ethic, you will excel in your field no matter what it is.
 

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You bring up valid points for "right to work" Marvin, but here is the way I see it. For unions to work, everyone has to be on board. Look at unions in rtw states. They are pretty much irrelevant. So passing any rtw law is a nail in the coffin of unions, and I don't support that.
But why is that. is it because the law killed the unions or is it the fact that when given a choice people prefer not to be in unions..
Unions may at times overstep their bounds, but are a necessary evil that do usually provide better compensation and working environment for their members. When I asked you earlier if you would pay your employees minimum wage if you could, you replied no. There are a lot of business owners that would love to pay their employees as little as possible, and that is someyhing that unions fight against.
I don't agree. In todays day and age I don't think you will have this problem. Especially if we were to clean up the imigration process that gives owners like that the opertunity to hire slave labor. Owners who only give minimum wage and bad benifits will not stay in business these days unless there is illeagal people here that cannot stand up for themselves for fear of deportation.

Look at history Marvin. Unions have been the driving force behind the 40 hour work week, overtime pay, decent wages, the minimum wage, safety laws, and similar things that benefit employees. None of these things existed before unions. And before you say that unions were necessary in the past, but are not necessary now because all the employee protection laws have been passed, you really think business would not continue to push to rescind these laws? Without the unions to keep fighting for workers, their voices would go largely unheard.
And I will say it again they have run thier course. You think the 40 hr work week, overtime and decent wages will dissapear without unions. Hardly. and OSHA is going nowhere.And the Gov controls minimum wage not the unions You say everybody has to be onboard. But what you keep neglecting to say is everybody has to be forced onboard. If given the choice roughly half or more would choose not to join the union. And keep the extra money the union FORCES them to pay wether they want to or not Do you think when they go on strike every union employee wanted to. If the union heads can rally 51% of the workers to walk off the job to strike the other 49% of the workers are forced to sit at home without a paycheck. Do you think that is fair and right. Bottom line is I live in a right to work state and has been a right to work state since 1946 and nothing of what you are saying has happened.
 

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What union are you a member of? If you don't mind me asking...
The unemployment union. They demand more money for unemployment or they won't do anything. Oh yeah thier not doing anything already.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Federal employees don't get to collectively bargain, so how does your post prove anything other than you do not understand the situation?:)hand

Pinhead,read the article! Then look up AFGE and AFSCME.

 
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