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Discussion Starter #1
...For the past eight years,...since I switched from the from the factory generator to a Delco alternator set up on my '63 Hallett,... the alternator will not begin to charge until I crack the throttle and give it some RPM???... ...If I do this once it will generally charge for the rest of the day even at idle... ...This was never an issue until last Saturday when I forgot to do this... ...I stopped to make a call on my cell phone and shut the boat off... ...When I went to start it,...no juice... ...Fortunately I was just outside Limesaddle Marina on Lake Oroville...

...Here are the technical details... ...The alternator is driven by the same pulley on the driveshaft that drove the generator... ...That pulley is a 4 inch as measured from the bottom of the v groove... ...the alternator pulley is a 2 inch... ...The crankshaft pulley that would have driven the original generator on an automotive 406 Ford is 6 inch... ...A good friend, although not a boat guy, has told me it may very well be a pulley size issue???... ...He says I may very well need to go to a larger size drive pulley???... ...Has any one ever had the same problem...
 

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Isn't that alternator pulley kind of hard on splines for slip yoke?
 

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I would think so to has to be putting more of a load on it then the v-drive:D
Depending on whether or not the battery is charging:happy:
I wonder if that would work to smooth out the backlash in the gearbox @ idle?:)hand
 

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Your alternator will not charge until it self generates enough voltage to kick in the field circuit. Your #1 terminal must not be seeing voltage. All you need to do is run a switched wire to the #1 terminal from the ignition key and it will kick in immediately. The #2 terminal is for sensing charging voltage, this can be jumpered to the main power stud, or connected to a constant 12 volt source in the main harness to compensate for voltage drop.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Your alternator will not charge until it self generates enough voltage to kick in the field circuit. Your #1 terminal must not be seeing voltage. All you need to do is run a switched wire to the #1 terminal from the ignition key and it will kick in immediately. The #2 terminal is for sensing charging voltage, this can be jumpered to the main power stud, or connected to a constant 12 volt source in the main harness to compensate for voltage drop.
...Thanks... ...So where do I go from here given what can be seen in the pic...

 

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First, fix that crimp off the rear post before that grounds to the alternator and you get a nasty melted mess. Next, tie the red wire coming from the white clip to the rear post, this will help "excite" the alternator. Leave the white wire as is or pull it out of the white clip, not needed. I'll look at my boat tonight, but that's how I did it. Still needs a blip of throttle to get it excited, but stays that way after.
 

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go to the rebuild shop, tell them to put a tractor pickup in your alternator and it will charge at idle.
I had one put in for the front mounted direct crank/alternator deal
 

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Discussion Starter #12
go to the rebuild shop, tell them to put a tractor pickup in your alternator and it will charge at idle.
I had one put in for the front mounted direct crank/alternator deal
...Hey thanks... ...Although this is rice farming country finding a rebuilder in a small Nor Cal town might be a trick but I will give it a shot... ...I will give The Hurst Brothers Butte Auto Supply in Oroville a shot... ...These guys never cease to amaze me with what they come up with or can do... ...The worst case senario is, I might have to take the alt with me back to North Hollywood ???...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Your alternator will not charge until it self generates enough voltage to kick in the field circuit. Your #1 terminal must not be seeing voltage. All you need to do is run a switched wire to the #1 terminal from the ignition key and it will kick in immediately. The #2 terminal is for sensing charging voltage, this can be jumpered to the main power stud, or connected to a constant 12 volt source in the main harness to compensate for voltage drop.
...I finally get it... ...The # 1 terminal was never connected when I installed the alt... ...I think it was because my ignition s/w was a three pole with no acc prosition and was not able to easily come up with a 4 pole s/w with a neck that would go through 1" plywood... ...It's all coming back to me now... ...I think I was told that it would still charge if I bipped the throttle,...which I did untill I forgot last Saturday... ...Anyway it will be good to go as soon as I come up with a long neck 4 pole ig s/w... ...Once again the old adage,..."temporary is permanent",...has reared it's ugly little head... ...Thanks all...

..
 

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The number 2 pin just needs fulltime power to it. That is the way it was originally wired in most GM cars. The number 1 pin used to go to the Charge Light bulb. When the key was turned on, a small amoung of current would run through the Light Bulb, into pin 1 and excite the field to start changing. When it starts charging, current run OUT of pin 1 and the Light goes out because it has +12v on both sides of the light. Now that is important, because if you just put Ignition Power to that pin (without going through a light bulb), when it starts charging, you will not be able to shut the engine off. Current will come out of pin 1 to the Ignition. It can't do that through a light bulb because not enough current can run through a light bulb to run the engine. So ..... here is what you can do. If you have a GM type starting solenoid on the starter, you can run the pin 1 wire to the small terminal opposite the small terminal used to crank the engine. The terminal was used to by-pass the Ballast resister while cranking. So it only has power while cranking the engine. Now since you are running a Ford, you might have an old style remote starter solenoid. If you have the right one, it has the same terminal on it. If you don't, you can always run the power through a Light Bulb, or a Diode. A Diode only lets power run one way through it. You can get them at any electric shop. Just a thought.

DSCN3026.jpg
 

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...Apparently not the boat is 49 years old and 99% original???...
Got it:))THumbsUp
Something else in the original post. You said you shut down to make a phone call and it would not restart. A fully charged battery should run the boat most of the day without an alternator. I'm thinking that the smaller than normal drive pulley would have something to do with that. It's not really a problem, GM alternator will work fine even @ 1:1 ratio, it just won't charge the battery as fast as one that is overdriven.(and probably not at all @ idle)
If you run anything else electrical other than just the ignition i.e. lights/radio when the motor is off you might have another issue with dead battery. If you think that might cause you a problem, the pulley on the drive line looks to be a water pump/crank pulley off something automotive and a decent mechanic should be able come up with a larger one.

If you don't run the boat a lot it might be a good idea to put a trickle charger on it, batteries will last a lot longer when they are fully charged.
As for the repair...radio shack/ diode for a dollar, connected in line (with the band on the diode installed towards the alternator on the white wire) to any wire that is hot in the run position, hook the 2 red wires together and run it is about the simplest...other than remembering to blip the throttle.:happy:

And thanx for the pics. Now i'm all motivated to figure out how to get a motorcycle alternator mounted to the v-drive on my deal...less crap/wiring on the motor the better:))THumbsUp
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Got it:))THumbsUp
Something else in the original post. You said you shut down to make a phone call and it would not restart. A fully charged battery should run the boat most of the day without an alternator. I'm thinking that the smaller than normal drive pulley would have something to do with that. It's not really a problem, GM alternator will work fine even @ 1:1 ratio, it just won't charge the battery as fast as one that is overdriven.(and probably not at all @ idle)
If you run anything else electrical other than just the ignition i.e. lights/radio when the motor is off you might have another issue with dead battery. If you think that might cause you a problem, the pulley on the drive line looks to be a water pump/crank pulley off something automotive and a decent mechanic should be able come up with a larger one.

If you don't run the boat a lot it might be a good idea to put a trickle charger on it, batteries will last a lot longer when they are fully charged.
As for the repair...radio shack/ diode for a dollar, connected in line (with the band on the diode installed towards the alternator on the white wire) to any wire that is hot in the run position, hook the 2 red wires together and run it is about the simplest...other than remembering to blip the throttle.:happy:


And thanx for the pics. Now i'm all motivated to figure out how to get a motorcycle alternator mounted to the v-drive on my deal...less crap/wiring on the motor the better:))THumbsUp

...My Sanger Runner has no alternator and charging has never been an issue, as with a mag it has nothing drawing once the engine is started... ...This boat has a petronix electronic ignition in place of the original dual points, which I do believe does draw???... ...It also has a 3EE battery like in a 56 Cad or now days a John Deer tractor... ...It is a pretty low amp battery... ...When I am not here the battery is left on a 1/2 amp solar charger which is fine in the summer but not so great in the winter...

...The pulley size issue has been brought up to me but I'm pretty sure I'm ok there...

...I bought a 4 post s/w from Autozone but it is a short neck and I would have to chissle away some wood on the back of the dash to use it,...which I do not want to do... ...I have found a long neck 4 pole s/w on line but it would have to be shipped and I'm not going to be here much longer... ...The more I think about a s/w with accessory the more I'm thinking it is not a good idea as someone most likely will turn the ig off and put it all the way over to acc which I'm assuming would keep 12 v to the alt field... ...I don't know what that would do to the alt or battery???... ...I also don't want to drill a hole for an idiot light so your idea of putting a diode in line is sounding pretty good... ...That way I could use the s/w with no acc side...

...Would you happen to know what value diode I should get???...

...It has become very obvious to me why 8 years ago I was ok with the idea of blipping the throttle
...
 

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...My Sanger Runner has no alternator and charging has never been an issue, as with a mag it has nothing drawing once the engine is started... ...This boat has a petronix electronic ignition in place of the original dual points, which I do believe does draw???... ...It also has a 3EE battery like in a 56 Cad or now days a John Deer tractor... ...It is a pretty low amp battery... ...When I am not here the battery is left on a 1/2 amp solar charger which is fine in the summer but not so great in the winter...

...The pulley size issue has been brought up to me but I'm pretty sure I'm ok there...

...I bought a 4 post s/w from Autozone but it is a short neck and I would have to chissle away some wood on the back of the dash to use it,...which I do not want to do... ...I have found a long neck 4 pole s/w on line but it would have to be shipped and I'm not going to be here much longer... ...The more I think about a s/w with accessory the more I'm thinking it is not a good idea as someone most likely will turn the ig off and put it all the way over to acc which I'm assuming would keep 12 v to the alt field... ...I don't know what that would do to the alt or battery???... ...I also don't want to drill a hole for an idiot light so your idea of putting a diode in line is sounding pretty good... ...That way I could use the s/w with no acc side...

...Would you happen to know what value diode I should get???...

...It has become very obvious to me why 8 years ago I was ok with the idea of blipping the throttle
...
Pertronix does draw...not all that much..way less than MSD Chiseling on the dash sucks..did mine to clear the switch..big piece came out..had to glue it back in..
Diode value? never payed attention to numbers on them...maybe go by diameter....1/8 or more should be fine,when in doubt put 2 in..side by side...the load on that circuit is minimal..solder wire on each end,might fold each wire back in the other direction and tape/heat shrink it in a bundle...anywhere handy in the harness is fine

And yes..if the wire to alt. is hot in accessory position it will run the battery down..

Might double check for a draw when you are done..disconnect either battery cable...test light..one end on the battery other end on cable..if test light doesn't light you are good to go.....

Bad thing about idiot like..bulb burns out it won't charge.....diodes are plenty stout...just about have to dead short one to blow it up.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Pertronix does draw...not all that much..way less than MSD Chiseling on the dash sucks..did mine to clear the switch..big piece came out..had to glue it back in..
Diode value? never payed attention to numbers on them...maybe go by diameter....1/8 or more should be fine,when in doubt put 2 in..side by side...the load on that circuit is minimal..solder wire on each end,might fold each wire back in the other direction and tape/heat shrink it in a bundle...anywhere handy in the harness is fine

And yes..if the wire to alt. is hot in accessory position it will run the battery down..

Might double check for a draw when you are done..disconnect either battery cable...test light..one end on the battery other end on cable..if test light doesn't light you are good to go.....

Bad thing about idiot like..bulb burns out it won't charge.....diodes are plenty stout...just about have to dead short one to blow it up.
...Put a 200 volt 3 amp diode in and it seems to work great... ...Went back to my 3 pole s/w......I measured the resistance of an idiot light which was 13.5n ohms... ...Seems to me using a resistor of that value would do the same thing as the diode???... ...But then what do I know,...I'm the guy that forgot to bipp the throttle???... ...Hey,...thanks for the fix...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Pertronix does draw...not all that much..way less than MSD Chiseling on the dash sucks..did mine to clear the switch..big piece came out..had to glue it back in..
Diode value? never payed attention to numbers on them...maybe go by diameter....1/8 or more should be fine,when in doubt put 2 in..side by side...the load on that circuit is minimal..solder wire on each end,might fold each wire back in the other direction and tape/heat shrink it in a bundle...anywhere handy in the harness is fine

And yes..if the wire to alt. is hot in accessory position it will run the battery down..

Might double check for a draw when you are done..disconnect either battery cable...test light..one end on the battery other end on cable..if test light doesn't light you are good to go.....

Bad thing about idiot like..bulb burns out it won't charge.....diodes are plenty stout...just about have to dead short one to blow it up.
...Woops,...I spoke to soon... ...I just did a voltage check back at the battery and with the neg cable disconnected,...I'm getting almost 12 volts between the neg batt post and the disconnected neg cable with the pos cable still connected to the batt... ...When I try the same test with the pos cable disconnected I get 0 volts... ...Now I'm really confused???...
 

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...Woops,...I spoke to soon... ...I just did a voltage check back at the battery and with the neg cable disconnected,...I'm getting almost 12 volts between the neg batt post and the disconnected neg cable with the pos cable still connected to the batt... ...When I try the same test with the pos cable disconnected I get 0 volts... ...Now I'm really confused???...
Two things. When you tested it between the positive post and the cable, the negative was hooked up right? If so, redo the test, except when you see 12V on the negative side, notice which lead is on the post, and which is on the cable. Now do the same thing on the positive side, except reverse the meter leads.



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