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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

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Temporarily Pacified!
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Another fine actor that I will no longer watch any of his productions....including Platoon. I just shredded that DVD and it was one of my favorites....watched it 100 times in theater on down time. Sad what he has become.
 

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Since it's 9/12 I think I will comment on this thread...

The Charlie Sheen Truth movement video can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKR2-A0KPU


I think the original OP's comparison to Rev. Wright are unfair for starters, and I see nothing wrong with continuing to ask questions about 9/11.

I don't believe the gov't orchestrated 9/11, but I'm also not convinced we have been told the whole truth.

For example, why were rescue workers told the air was safe to breath at the WTC site during rescue operations when in fact it was not. Many rescuers became very sick in the months and years following that rescue operation. I'm not looking for an answer here, just suggesting that there are unanswered questions.
 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
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Since it's 9/12 I think I will comment on this thread...

The Charlie Sheen Truth movement video can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKR2-A0KPU


I think the original OP's comparison to Rev. Wright are unfair for starters, and I see nothing wrong with continuing to ask questions about 9/11.

I don't believe the gov't orchestrated 9/11, but I'm also not convinced we have been told the whole truth.

For example, why were rescue workers told the air was safe to breath at the WTC site during rescue operations when in fact it was not. Many rescuers became very sick in the months and years following that rescue operation. I'm not looking for an answer here, just suggesting that there are unanswered questions.
Very simple, but, don't know if you'll accept it.

"Somebody screwed up".

I am certain (sarcasm warning here for the "slower" amongst us) that there were dozens of "air quality testing" machines available, and in use, immediately after the buildings fell.

Nobody gave a damn about "the air being safe", they were looking for survivors and still trying to put out the fires that dropped the buildings (3 in all).

Whoever told them the air was safe, screwed up, plain and simple, that person was wrong.
 

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Personally I think that he, Rosie the Rev. Wright, Van Jones and the rest of these laughing conspiracy theory idiots should take a boat to the Middle East and never come back.......

http://storyballoontv.com/2009/09/11/truther-charlie-sheen-discussed-on-fox-maybe-we-should-boycott-two-and-a-half-men/
Charlie and his father are left wing loons. I still think they are good actors, but lets face it, these Hollywood types live in the world of fantasy and make believe.

I am starting to believe that Sen. Joe McCarthy had it right years ago, that Hollywood is full of Commies.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Since it's 9/12 I think I will comment on this thread...

The Charlie Sheen Truth movement video can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKR2-A0KPU


I think the original OP's comparison to Rev. Wright are unfair for starters, and I see nothing wrong with continuing to ask questions about 9/11.

I don't believe the gov't orchestrated 9/11, but I'm also not convinced we have been told the whole truth.

For example, why were rescue workers told the air was safe to breath at the WTC site during rescue operations when in fact it was not. Many rescuers became very sick in the months and years following that rescue operation. I'm not looking for an answer here, just suggesting that there are unanswered questions.
Fair enough that you have questions but you yourself say that you don't believe the gov't orchestrated it. Charlie is out to place blame on the government along with the others in my original post. They are all part of the truther movement that does imply our government was behind the attack.

He specifically says a conspiracy theory when saying that 4 airplanes hit 75% of their targets. He also implies that the buildings were brought down deliberately. He says controlled. He is also questioning the AA flight that landed into the Pentagon. He is not asking whether or not the smoke is healthy.



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Fair enough that you have questions but you yourself say that you don't believe the gov't orchestrated it. Charlie is out to place blame on the government along with the others in my original post. They are all part of the truther movement that does imply our government was behind the attack.

He specifically says a conspiracy theory when saying that 4 airplanes hit 75% of their targets. He also implies that the buildings were brought down deliberately. He says controlled. He is also questioning the AA flight that landed into the Pentagon. He is not asking whether or not the smoke is healthy.
Again, I am not a Truther, but please consider the following quote from the leader of the 9/11 commission:


"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

Statements like this will always lead - and rightfully so - to alternate versions of the "truth".
 

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Living in a cage of fear
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Again, I am not a Truther, but please consider the following quote from the leader of the 9/11 commission:


"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

Statements like this will always lead - and rightfully so - to alternate versions of the "truth".

In my simple way of thinking, that is no surprise. We live in a cloak of ignorance about the threats against us on a daily basis.
The amount of secrets we are unaware of is needed, to a degree, to avoid compromising our intelligence base, as well as avoiding daily panic of the population. Truth is, We the people may never know all of it.
I myself have always thought that we brought down the 4th airplane ourselves, to avoid a white house strike. Then fabbed the story of the heroes on board. "Lets roll". It pains me to say that, but I do believe it.
It is a great story of heroism and sacrifice, but gives the population a warm feeling and some dignity from that day. Besides that if I am right, it was a "must do" situation to avoid further loss of life.
 

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I find it interesting that many of the same Bush haters who thought he and his administration were idiots, simple minded etc....also believe that they were clever enough to pull off an operation of this magnitude and cover it up.
 

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In my simple way of thinking, that is no surprise. We live in a cloak of ignorance about the threats against us on a daily basis.
The amount of secrets we are unaware of is needed, to a degree, to avoid compromising our intelligence base, as well as avoiding daily panic of the population. Truth is, We the people may never know all of it.
I myself have always thought that we brought down the 4th airplane ourselves, to avoid a white house strike. Then fabbed the story of the heroes on board. "Lets roll". It pains me to say that, but I do believe it.
It is a great story of heroism and sacrifice, but gives the population a warm feeling and some dignity from that day. Besides that if I am right, it was a "must do" situation to avoid further loss of life.
The problem is if there is one thing bureaucrats are good at it's covering their A$$es; and there is great potential for these bureaucrats to hide facts to do just that when hiding certain facts may not be justified.

If the 9/11 commission was not formed to discover the "truth", but rather just to come up with an "offical" explanation of what happened then there is no value in that exercise.

I believe that is the perception - in particular given the statements commission members themselves made regarding gov't cover ups - and why people like Charlie Sheen don't want an official story but want the truth. There may be a small percentage of information that cannot be released, but I suspect facts have been covered up with the express purpose of covering someone's a$$.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
In my simple way of thinking, that is no surprise. We live in a cloak of ignorance about the threats against us on a daily basis.
The amount of secrets we are unaware of is needed, to a degree, to avoid compromising our intelligence base, as well as avoiding daily panic of the population. Truth is, We the people may never know all of it.
I myself have always thought that we brought down the 4th airplane ourselves, to avoid a white house strike. Then fabbed the story of the heroes on board. "Lets roll". It pains me to say that, but I do believe it.
It is a great story of heroism and sacrifice, but gives the population a warm feeling and some dignity from that day. Besides that if I am right, it was a "must do" situation to avoid further loss of life.

TG do you believe that the family members of those on that flight that tell their stories are lying? I can not grasp that.



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TG do you believe that the family members of those on that flight that tell their stories are lying? I can not grasp that.
Exactly, I cannot picture the family members lying about the conversations taking place in that time of crisis. Sometimes things are not as complicated as they seem, but there are always conspiracy manipulators and believers.
 

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TG do you believe that the family members of those on that flight that tell their stories are lying? I can not grasp that.
Hard to know for sure. But given some of the inconsitencies, I'm with Tommy. That the govt. may have indeed taken out that plane in the interest of stopping an attack on the capitol. The familes may very well have nothing to do with any "cover up" and were told the same as the rest of us. If not, so be it in the interest of not starting something unnecessary as we had enough to deal with. If in fact the plane was engaged by F-16's, I'd rather it remain a secret.
 

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That one has always left a question mark in my mind. What exactly happened to that plane and why there was nothing left of it to be found at the site of impact. I believe several brave souls did try to take out the hijackers though from the phone calls a few had made on the flight.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hard to know for sure. But given some of the inconsitencies, I'm with Tommy. That the govt. may have indeed taken out that plane in the interest of stopping an attack on the capitol. The familes may very well have nothing to do with any "cover up" and were told the same as the rest of us. If not, so be it in the interest of not starting something unnecessary as we had enough to deal with. If in fact the plane was engaged by F-16's, I'd rather it remain a secret.
I guess the probablility in what you are saying exists on the 4th plane, however I still believe the stories told by the family memebers , of those that were on the flight to be true. The timing of the calls and the plane going down could be a coincidence but surely their words are not made up. I can't believe that they are involved in a conspiracy theory with the government.



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I can't believe that they are involved in a conspiracy theory with the government.
The other planes that actually hit their targets I believe everything unfolded as it appeared and was reported. I don't believe the families are in on any conspiracy. I think they know what we know. But after the famous "lets roll" comment and the phone was hung up, it's very possible the plane had to be shot down.
 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
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Again, I am not a Truther, but please consider the following quote from the leader of the 9/11 commission:


"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

Statements like this will always lead - and rightfully so - to alternate versions of the "truth".
OK, too f'ing early to get my blood pressure up on a Sunday, but, since you want to discuss it, how about posting up what keane claims he was told, instead of posting up keane stating he resfuses to believe what he was told.
Quoting a conspiracy idiot proclaiming he has not been given the answers, especially when you appear to agree that his question wasn't answered, justifies him, and puts you in bed with him.

I've researched the whole deal pretty heavilly, including fending off (ie, "correcting") the loons claiming "NORAD was on a standdown", etc, etc, etc.

Fact is, 1 of the planes hit a building BEFORE the AF was told it was hjacked.
1 was notified AS it crashed.
All 4 were extremely hard to keep track of, in a VERY busy air coridor, after the ID transponders were shut down. They became an un-ID'd blip, with no call-sign, no altitude or heading info, just a dot among Identified aircraft radar returns.


At most, NEADS had 9 minutes advance notice of the first hijacking (American Airlines Flight 11)
NEADS was notified about United Airlines Flight 175 at 9:03 a.m. - the same time that it crashed into the World Trade Center's south tower.
NEADS had four minutes advance notice of American Airlines Flight 77.
NEADS was notified about United Airlines Flight 93 at 10:07 a.m. - after it already had crashed.


8:37:52, Boston Center reached NEADS. This was the first notification received by the military-at any level-that American 11 had been hijacked:

"You would see thousands of green blips on your scope," Nasypany said, "and now you have to pick and choose. Which is the bad guy out there? Which is the hijacked aircraft? And without that information from F.A.A., it's a needle in a haystack."

At this point in the morning, more than 3,000 jetliners are already in the air over the continental United States, and the Boston controller's direction—"35 miles north of Kennedy"—doesn't help the NEADS controllers at all."

American 11 struck the North Tower at 8:46.

9 minuites to locate, and intercept, a dot among hundreds of Identified dots.

What no truther has EVER been able to tell me is this:
EXACTLY what was going to happen IF was actually had a millitary fighter catch up to a hijacked airliner that day, before it hit a building?

Traditional hijackings wanted money, political prisoners released, news time on TV, etc, etc.
This day they wanted death, crashing into a building.
Approval to shoot down a civilian airliner comes from one office, one office ONLY.
Nope, it ain't the Sec. of Defence, or the V.P. Not from the Chief of Staff of the A.F.
The President gives that OK, no-one else.
So, the fighters catch up to the planes, and follow them, telling where they are, and watch them crash into WTC1, WTC2, the Pentagon, and a field in Pennsylvania. hands tied to do anything else but watch.


Good lord.
But then, there's STILL idiots with conspiracy theories about Pearl Harbor too. :)sphss:)sphss:)sphss:)sphss
 

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E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
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TG do you believe that the family members of those on that flight that tell their stories are lying? I can not grasp that.
According to most of the conspiracists, the families are not only liars, but the "phone calls" which are on reccord, are created, made up, and never actually happened.
Of course, as with everything else they claim, it cannot be proven, just as the reality of the calls actually happeneing, as opposed to being faked somehow (usually through secret government means using computers of course) as recorded, cannot be proven.


Flight 93 people---------------------------------------

NEADS (The correct term, while everyone uses 'NORAD anyhow), Northeast Air Defence Sector, was notified, according to reccords, that U.A. Flight 93 had been hijacked, 10:07AM.
United 93 crashed in Pennsylvania at 10:03:11.

The 10:03:11 impact time is supported by previous National Transportation Safety Board analysis and by evidence from the Commission staff's analysis of radar, the flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder, infrared satellite data, and air traffic control transmissions.

If the on-board recorders say the plane came to a "sudden stop" @ 10:03:11, I'll believe the FDR & CVR, not the conspiracist who says "A seismograph says it was really 10:06".

That is STILL one full minuite as a smoking hole in the ground, BEFORE NEADS was told the plane was a hijack.
WE DID NOT SHOOT IT DOWN, period.
 
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